Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

Do you really like the DH?

  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 cardsfan

cardsfan

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 370 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:50 AM

We've resisted in the NL for 47 years now and with a 26th player added it may be delayed even longer. When offense is slacking they talk about bringing it to the NL.

The DH allows non-athletes like David Ortiz to stay on in the majors. You can justify bad contracts in the AL by saying well he can always be the DH. Pujols is if you've read his comments about facing Dotel in the Dominican Republic is likely 2 years older than he is. Well, no wonder why he signed in the AL increasing salaries and years for older players who should be pinch hitters most of the time.

If you are a pitcher you like facing a low hitting batter in the game, the other pitcher. If more games are close in score versus blowouts you follow your teams game more closely than some blowout.

The AL used to have a 100 more batters hit per year in the years following the DH as well.

The players union will never agree to eliminate DH in AL because of the extra jobs. I really don't think it adds anything for attendance. I'm glad Barry Bonds didn't have it available when he was roiding. Ortiz did.
  • nclahammer likes this

#2 TopGunn#22

TopGunn#22

    Member

  • Member
  • 147 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:07 AM

I love the DH.The single biggest "What the Hell???" in all of sports is that the American and National leagues have DIFFERENT rules that affects the LINEUP each team can field in the World Series.It's absolutely stupid.You're right, the DH is NEVER going away.The National League needs to implement it...like 30 years ago !  

  • USAFChief, Blake, gunnarthor and 6 others like this

#3 TopGunn#22

TopGunn#22

    Member

  • Member
  • 147 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:09 AM

Cards fan...I wonder if the cards trade Jose Martinez if there is a DH in the N.L. ??It was a good trade for both T-Bay and the Cards but DH is where Martinez belongs and he WILL hit for the Rays.

  • Oldgoat_MN and snap4birds like this

#4 JW24

JW24

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 196 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:13 AM

I can appreciate the NL perspective and strategy involved with having no DH. Watching Bartolo Colon sock a dinger off James Shields is one of my favorite baseball clips of all time. But I do prefer the DH.

 

The day is long gone that pitchers were able to provide anything resembling value at the plate. I hate seeing a potential rally get snuffed out because the pitcher comes to the plate and whiffs on 3 straight, and this is magnified in playoff baseball.

 

I want to see the best hitters face the best pitchers all game, every game. That is the basis for my liking of the DH.

  • h2oface, TopGunn#22, Otwins and 1 other like this

#5 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    A Little Teapot

  • Owner
  • 23,266 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 10:32 AM

I’m 100% on the side of the DH. I have no interest in watching pitchers flail at a baseball and kill rallies on a regular basis.
  • gunnarthor, gil4, Twins33 and 8 others like this

#6 cardsfan

cardsfan

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 370 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 10:56 AM

Cards fan...I wonder if the cards trade Jose Martinez if there is a DH in the N.L. ??It was a good trade for both T-Bay and the Cards but DH is where Martinez belongs and he WILL hit for the Rays.

Well, the Cards tried hiding him at 1st and RF.

As far as the DH you hope your pitcher hits a little better than their pitcher.
Usually after two ABs there is a pinch hitter and or a double switch.

I don't see the need to employ hitters who are so one-dimensional. Once they switch in the NL it won't be reversed.

Yes, the TB trade was good for a top pitching prospect. Both guys will hit better or likely than in the NL considering how many bad teams are over in the AL.

#7 mlhouse

mlhouse

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 745 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:06 AM

 

I can appreciate the NL perspective and strategy involved with having no DH. Watching Bartolo Colon sock a dinger off James Shields is one of my favorite baseball clips of all time. But I do prefer the DH.

 

The day is long gone that pitchers were able to provide anything resembling value at the plate. I hate seeing a potential rally get snuffed out because the pitcher comes to the plate and whiffs on 3 straight, and this is magnified in playoff baseball.

 

I want to see the best hitters face the best pitchers all game, every game. That is the basis for my liking of the DH.

 

The lack of the DH does not create strategy in the NL unless you believe that the obvious is "strategy". Bill James did a study a long time ago and he showed that there was more "strategy" in the AL. While the NL used more pinch hitters and relievers, every NL team did.So, the standard deviation of these "strategies" was more significant in the AL.

 

In other words, pinch hitting for your pitcher in the late innings of a close ball game isn't a "strategy" because the analytics make such a move so obvious. But, if your starting short stop and 9th hitter is coming up in the same situations the level of strategic decisions is amplified.Some managers will use the pinch hitter in the AL.Others not.And those decisions are the more interesting.

  • Brock Beauchamp, Blake, gil4 and 8 others like this

#8 jkcarew

jkcarew

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,723 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:16 AM

I wouldn't think the NL will be holding out much longer.

 

2019 pitcher batting stats...OPS - 322; OBP - 160; K% - 43.5

But those mid-inning double-switches are positively magical.

  • gunnarthor, Danchat, dgwills and 2 others like this

#9 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,150 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:27 AM

The lack of the DH does not create strategy in the NL unless you believe that the obvious is "strategy". Bill James did a study a long time ago and he showed that there was more "strategy" in the AL. While the NL used more pinch hitters and relievers, every NL team did. So, the standard deviation of these "strategies" was more significant in the AL.

In other words, pinch hitting for your pitcher in the late innings of a close ball game isn't a "strategy" because the analytics make such a move so obvious. But, if your starting short stop and 9th hitter is coming up in the same situations the level of strategic decisions is amplified. Some managers will use the pinch hitter in the AL. Others not. And those decisions are the more interesting.


Great point. I agree.

#10 FritzDahmus

FritzDahmus

    Elizabethton Twins

  • Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:29 AM

For me, it's not about whether I like the DH or not.....it's about what I hate.

 

I hate watching pitchers hit!

  • gunnarthor, Mr. Brooks, Dman and 1 other like this

#11 bobs

bobs

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 340 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 12:07 PM

I love the strategy involved in the NL.I hate seeing pitchers try and hit.DH in the NL?Yes, please.With the money invested in starting pitching today, I'm surprised NL hasn't gone to DH by now.If you had someone like Gerrit Cole, would you want him hitting and running the bases??


#12 Twins33

Twins33

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 552 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 12:31 PM

Yes. I’d rather watch Cruz hit than any of our pitchers. And even when it’s someone not as good as Cruz, I still prefer it that way. 

  • Nine of twelve likes this

#13 Nine of twelve

Nine of twelve

    Minnesota Twins

  • Member
  • 2,632 posts
  • LocationEarth, for the time being

Posted 19 January 2020 - 12:46 PM

I definitely favor having the DH. I admit to enjoying the novelty of seeing an AL pitcher get a hit in one of his 5 plate appearances of a season but I would enjoy seeing a real batter get a hit just as much.

One point regarding the comment about Gerrit Cole running the bases: NL starting pitchers run the bases and I doubt they are injured doing so any more frequently than other players. I think it's a matter of being accustomed to doing it. If I were a manager I would consider identifying a couple starting pitchers who would be capable base runners and make sure they get coaching and opportunities to do that in spring training and in games that aren't close. This gives the manager a little more flexibility. The Twins used to do this with Jim Kaat in the '60's. Example: a slow catcher (that's probably redundant) hits a double late in a close game. Put a pitcher in to pinch run so you don't have to use a position player who would come out of the game right away before another slow catcher is put in.

On a separate note, why is this thread in the Minor League Talk Forum?


#14 cardsfan

cardsfan

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 370 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 12:52 PM

I definitely favor having the DH. I admit to enjoying the novelty of seeing an AL pitcher get a hit in one of his 5 plate appearances of a season but I would enjoy seeing a real batter get a hit just as much.
One point regarding the comment about Gerrit Cole running the bases: NL starting pitchers run the bases and I doubt they are injured doing so any more frequently than other players. I think it's a matter of being accustomed to doing it. If I were a manager I would consider identifying a couple starting pitchers who would be capable base runners and make sure they get coaching and opportunities to do that in spring training and in games that aren't close. This gives the manager a little more flexibility. The Twins used to do this with Jim Kaat in the '60's. Example: a slow catcher (that's probably redundant) hits a double late in a close game. Put a pitcher in to pinch run so you don't have to use a position player who would come out of the game right away before another slow catcher is put in.
On a separate note, why is this thread in the Minor League Talk Forum?

Your position order of topics changed.

#15 Shaitan

Shaitan

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,282 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 03:14 PM

I love the NL game, but I also like that the two leagues have different rules.

 

If they were the same...why bother with 2 leagues in the first place?

 

I'm not a fan of interleague play, though. I'd rather go back to old days of even play among all AL teams (for the Twins) instead of interleague + divisionally weighted.


#16 gunnarthor

gunnarthor

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 10,048 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 05:04 PM

The NL game is simply inferior and the lack of a DH is a big reason. The idea that strategy is somehow involved is vastly overstated. https://hatedyankees...ational-league/

  • dgwills and Vanimal46 like this

#17 4twinsJA

4twinsJA

    Elizabethton Twins

  • Member
  • 36 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 06:13 PM

Why have different rules fir NL and AL. Interleague play and WS awkward because visiting team not built for the other league's rules. When Twins played interleague team last year Cruz sat, one of their best hitters, so someone who took his first BP of the year before the game can hit.

  • TopGunn#22 likes this

#18 Nine of twelve

Nine of twelve

    Minnesota Twins

  • Member
  • 2,632 posts
  • LocationEarth, for the time being

Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:30 PM

 

Your position order of topics changed.

Guess I must have misread something somewhere.


#19 Nine of twelve

Nine of twelve

    Minnesota Twins

  • Member
  • 2,632 posts
  • LocationEarth, for the time being

Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:32 PM

 

The NL game is simply inferior and the lack of a DH is a big reason. The idea that strategy is somehow involved is vastly overstated. https://hatedyankees...ational-league/

The NL won more interleague games than the AL each of the last two seasons. However, the last time before 2018 the NL did so was 2003.

  • h2oface likes this

#20 Dman

Dman

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 1,871 posts

Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:05 PM

I think once the NL has teh DH they'll wonder why they didn't switch to it 30 years ago.The game is much more exciting when mighty Casey is at bat even if he does strikeout.

  • Vanimal46 likes this