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Front Page: With Twins Likely Out on Donaldson, So What's the Plan Now?

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#21 JDubs

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 07:51 AM

Well, at least the Vikings loss today will take my mind off of this terrible off season for a little while...


#22 Doctor Gast

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:05 AM

 I`ve been a Twins fan since they existed & I`ll always be no matter what. I`m thankful to the Pohlads for bringing the WS trophy to MN. in `89 & `91.

 I don`t blame them for not signing their FAs even Ryu, they might have had a good reason but now if they don`t go out finda descent trade or 2 & be very creative, I`d be very disappointed & even betrayed.

 there`s a lot good possibilities out there if they only open themselves to that & maybe very creative. Pitching is still the priority but a pretty good SS would be nice. We have many players that can be traded. There`s many I`d hate to see go but we can`t save them all on the 40 man. We can trade player that are redundant (meaning keeping several player when we need only one). We only need to decide if we want to go all in & win it all or only advance further in the PS for the time being, we can not be status quo or we`ll be left out in the cold. 

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#23 Tommygun921

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:14 AM

I certainly didn't expect Donaldson to sign with the Twins. I think free agents like him just use the Twins as a team to drive up the price to places they want to go. However it now appears they won't have signaled any impact free agents. Which is highly disappointing. Especially with the Indians essentially staying the same and the White Sox definitely improved. Also can't imagine there's no regression from the Twins.
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#24 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:17 AM

I`ve been a Twins fan since they existed & I`ll always be no matter what. I`m thankful to the Pohlads for bringing the WS trophy to MN. in `89 & `91.
 I don`t blame them for not signing their FAs even Ryu, they might have had a good reason but now if they don`t go out finda descent trade or 2 & be very creative, I`d be very disappointed & even betrayed.
 there`s a lot good possibilities out there if they only open themselves to that & maybe very creative. We have many players that can be traded. There`s many I`d hate to see go but we can`t save them all on the 40 man. We can trade player that are redundant (meaning keeping several player when we need only one). We only need to decide if we want to go all in & win it all or only advance further in the PS for the time being, we can not be status quo or we`ll be left out in the cold.


Twins won in 87, not 89.

#25 mikelink45

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:33 AM

This seems as inevitable as any column on TD.I believe most readers felt this would be the end result.So if we are back to prospects - then play the prospects - no more questionable moves to veterans who do not move the dial.  

Give Rooker, Raley, Kiriloff a real chance at 1B. I am not interested in a journeyman, nor am I pleased to think that Marwin starts. Gonzales he had a total fWAR of 1.4.I want more from 1B.

Give Graterol, Balazovic real opportunities if we believe they are going to be our best starters for the future and use Thorpe, Dobnak, Poppens, Smeltzer as fill in BP and SP rotations.

 

If they move Sano to 1B, push Lewis to start and figure out if he or Polanco are best at 3B.

 

 

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#26 rv78

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:34 AM

So the Twins have offered $100M/4 years to Donaldson = $25M a year.

They've dished out $7M to Bailey, $3M to Hill, $2.75M to Clippard, $4.25M to Avila for a grand total of $42M when you add what they have offered to Donaldson.

 

Cole went to the Yankees for $36M a year. Yet the Twins couldn't afford him? Pretty sure Cole will outperform Bailey and Hill and would have made Clippard less needed with having to use arms in the pen less often when every 5th day you've got a guy who can potentially pitch into the 8th or 9th inning.

 

Oh, don't forget the added revenue a Cole would have brought to Target Field by exciting the fan base. Instead we should show up with paper bags on our heads.

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#27 Mrrhiny23

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:45 AM

Poker times over and Josh won, always wanted to stay with Braves. All he wanted was other teams to bid so he'd get more from the Braves. Trade only way to fill 2 voids ( 1B/3rd & P ). Might be just rumors but Pirates might be willing to trade Bell Archer Musgrave. Bryant Cubs ?

#28 gunnarthor

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:01 AM

I'm really not surprised at all by this offseason. The Pohlads are the problem. We've had some pretty smart GMs over the years. It's not them. Ownership puts severe limits on this team yearly. Dumpster diving, one year contracts, relying on prospects is going to continue. We need better prospects - Randy Dobnak should not be starting a playoff game.

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#29 ewen21

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:08 AM

 

I think they've taken solid "swings" on guys like Wheeler, MadBum, Donaldson.What they aren't is willing to move prospects to build a team that can compete for a World Series

Or maybe it's more to do with the fact that guys we'd wouldn't mind moving just aren't as good as a large part of the Twins fanbase and organization touted them to be?I think of prospects as meat.If there exists a team like this one, with a core of good players well under thirty, then prospects should not matter.We should be selling off literally ALL OF THEM without any consideration about what we lost.We need to be more worried about what we could gain than what we might lose.Not with a team that has this makeup.

 

The other problem is, we just cannot compete in the FA market for reasons that go beyond money.I think being pathetic losers in the postseason is probably the worst thing about this team.The fact is, we can lose every game in the postseason and there is no shortage of fans who still call the season a success.I don't know how that works to help foster a culture of winning.When you consider the location and add to that postseason futility which is both historical and hysterical, then it's a problem.All this complaining about not signing free agents this winter was ridiculous.Especially when it comes from anyone who believes the players should be free to play where they want and sign absurd contracts that have no limit.Most franchises in baseball are hamstrung by the system the players have fought to have and certain fans love to defend for whatever reason.We are one of those franchises that are at a disadvantage and it goes far beyond money.The money has gotten so insane that 15, 20, 30 million extra dollars isn't enough incentive to get players to play here.Why in the world should Bumgarner want to come here?For 15 or 20 million more dollars when he's already earned 57 million dollars by the age of 30?A country boy like him from North Carolina has all the money he will ever need and then he goes into the open market.He is going to choose where he wants to play and he was going to get more than enough regardless of where he signed.It was about where he WANTED TO BE.He wants a ranch in Arizona.He wants that life.He isn't getting that in Minnesota.  

So everyone who got up in arms about offering MORE MONEY MORE MONEY MORE MONEY really needs to take a seat for a little while.It is over.  

 

To survive, we not only need to be very strong at developing players, but also we must be smart enough to trade off talent to make the big club better.This garbage about "mortgaging the future" when the core of the team is young and talented is straight up weird.If we are so besotted with a guy like Buxton then send Kirlioff and Larnach packing to add pitching depth.If Graterol is ready then screw the service time nonsense.Call him up now.Find creative ways to use him.Do it!

 

I don't blame the FO for not hitting a home run in the FA market.The system is such that we'd need to outbid the entire market by a lot in order to entice players to come here and that is not a sound way of doing business.It is stupid, desperate, irresponsible and will likely lead to trouble.What this team needs to do is not get connected to prospects at all.We surely need to treat them well, raise them to become pros and all the good stuff.However, when it comes to future plans we need to stop acting as though the players we draft are going to be Twins by the time they get to the league. They are nothing more than assets the contribute to the success of the operation.If trading one of those assets helps the operation then that asset served a purpose.

 

If we have meat to sell in the minors to improve the major league team then do it.That is the beef I am starting to have with this FO.They need to make a signature trade real soon.Something that will shake the organization a little and perhaps change the culture a little.  

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#30 kdag23

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:08 AM

Based on some other articles I read, I think the Twins stuck with their original offer of 4/$90m for JD. Of course that's not going to get it done, but hey - they tried.
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#31 USAFChief

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:19 AM

Based on some other articles I read, I think the Twins stuck with their original offer of 4/$90m for JD. Of course that's not going to get it done, but hey - they tried.

the STrib article SAYS they didn't "appear willing to move off their original offer," which the article also says was "in excess of $20m per year" for 4 years.

So they werent actually serious bidders, if the reporting is true.
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#32 jhoffman

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:20 AM

If the A's extend Semien, they won't have the Moneyball to extend Chapman too. Trade that prospect capital for the best third baseman no one is talking about!He's a lot younger and cheaper than Donaldson and just as good if not better.


#33 USAFChief

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:24 AM

If the A's extend Semien, they won't have the Moneyball to extend Chapman too. Trade that prospect capital for the best third baseman no one is talking about! He's a lot younger and cheaper than Donaldson and just as good if not better.

Chapman isnt even arb eligible yet. Oakland isnt trading him.
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#34 ewen21

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:27 AM

Donaldson already earned 80,000,000 in baseball and he has a pension for life.Do any of you really think he is going to take 110,000,000 over 95,000,000 to play someplace he'd rather not play?He used us to jack up the price.The guy has more money than he knows what to do with and because of that for a lot of guys it goes well beyond the money now.

 

There was a time when extra money did provide more of an impetus.For these high price tag free agents who already have a set pension and have earned as much as Donaldson, what do they care about 5 million more when they are already set to make 25,000,000?

 

As a man, I know that if I had the money Donaldson had already, I would be more concerned about location than I am money.He is from Jacksonville, FL.He probably has family and friends all around and is more concerned about THAT than money.  

 

I know that is an impossible concept for some to grasp, but just because a lot of people cannot wrap their arms around it doesn't mean it isn't the main factor in this case.

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#35 ewen21

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:30 AM

 

the STrib article SAYS they didn't "appear willing to move off their original offer," which the article also says was "in excess of $20m per year" for 4 years.

So they werent actually serious bidders, if the reporting is true.

What would it have taken in your estimation?

 

Also, do you consider for one second that players who are already rich beyond any measure don't really care about a few million dollars more a year when they already know they are set to be worth close 9 figures no matter where they go?When you get in that range of money other things start to matter more.I don't think you are willing to grasp that.

 


#36 JLease

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:43 AM

Feels a little like Donaldson is using all the other suitors to try and get Atlanta to up their bid for him, which is apparently where he wants to play. Which, good for him and all, get what you want, but I suspect this is where a lot of the pessimism is coming from with the FO. My guess is they've got a offer in that they think is competitive and bigger than Atlanta's and Team Donaldson is trying to get all the suitors to go higher in an attempt to get Atlanta to improve their offer, and right now Atlanta is the team that's not really moving. I can understand being frustrated by being used as a stalking horse.

 

Personally, I'd ramp up trade discussions with the Red Sox. I'd be very happy adding Price to this team, they could add him without giving up a lot in prospects because of the desire to dump salary over in Boston and they have the budget room to eat most (almost all) of his contract without a problem. So give back a mid-range prospect and a low-A lottery ticket and get the deal done.

 

 

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#37 Twodogs

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:45 AM

What about Addison Russell? Could he man SS which would slide Polanco to 2B and Arraez to 3B and allow Sano to go to 1B? I know he had a big year a couple of years ago and has not really gotten full playing time since Baez came around, but he would be a step up Fielding wise I comparison to Polanco wouldn't he? I don't have access to all of the fielding numbers and whatnot but I just know he is a guy that is out there and he's only 25 and I believe he is a FA also? Correct?

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#38 USAFChief

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 09:53 AM

What about Addison Russell? Could he man SS which would slide Polanco to 2B and Arraez to 3B and allow Sano to go to 1B? I know he had a big year a couple of years ago and has not really gotten full playing time since Baez came around, but he would be a step up Fielding wise I comparison to Polanco wouldn't he? I don't have access to all of the fielding numbers and whatnot but I just know he is a guy that is out there and he's only 25 and I believe he is a FA also? Correct?


I dont think moving Arraez to 3rd fixes anything. In fact, given his arm, I'm pretty sure Arraez would be a worse third baseman than Sano. So you've made SS possibly better, but 1st and 3rd worse.
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#39 rdehring

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 10:01 AM

I don't often disagree with you, John, but I find myself doing so today...if I read the tone of your piece correctly?

 

We won't know whether or not the Twins were a success or failure this offseason until the games have been played and the season ends at the end of September.If the Twins are again division champs and headed to the playoffs, everything they did will have been a success.If they fail to make the playoffs without having an unusual number of injuries or suspensions, then you will have been proven correct.My point is that it is way too early to proclaim that what they didn't do is a failure.

 

It is frustrating to me when so many people seem to think that the only thing that matters all winter is how many dollars they are spending.I for one, am happy that we have a FO that appears to have a business plan that calls for caution when chasing free agents.I am glad they have both dollar and length of contract limits that they appear unwilling to violate.  

 

And none of us know whether or not they believe ethat the best two of the four young guns we saw last year will perform as well as many of these free agents in 2020, given the opportunity to do so.Personally, I can't wait to sit down at my TV and watch Thorpe or Smeltzer or Dobnak or Graterol toe that rubber every two of five games for the first six weeks of the season.  

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#40 TwinsFan347

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 10:01 AM

To me this is good news, investing 25+ million AAV on a 4 year deal that takes him through age 37 was a bad idea from the start considering the other options that are available.

 

Now the question is will they delve into the trade market where there the better options lie. Even if it will rake some prospect capital or maybe a ML player. The Twins have a lot of OF options in the organization at this point and there is only room for 3 so parting with some of that talent to improve the overall team would make sense.