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Royals Destroy My Dreams, Acquire Ervin Santana

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#21 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

Getting Santana for nothing but salary is the type of move the Twins would make if ownership was serious about winning. Teams needing to put together 4/5ths of a rotation don't have the luxery of waiting for perfect solutions.

Sure, but the pitcher whom they acquire actually does matter. In FA they can acquire a pitcher for nothing but salary. Santana has all kinds of questions marks, and might be the wrong pitcher, even if the right type of move.


If the Twins pick up four FA pitchers equal to or better than Santana, on one year deals, I'll retract.

#22 beckmt

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:38 AM

Lots of unknowns here. Velocity decline this year would have me worried. I assume the Royals checked his medical reports. Still think Twins could do better than this. Would be interested in what the Angels wanted for Haren and how much salary the Twins would have to take on to work a deal. Move by the Royal was better than doing nothing. A low level prospect to the Angels for Haren and cash is intreging.

#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

Every available pitcher has issues....worse news, this give the Angels money to sign Greinke. So two pitchers go off the market, and people willing to pay real money are no longer waiting for Greinke to decide.

These boards are going to nitpick every pitcher the Twins do not acquire, to explain why passing on them all was a good decision. Just like I expect Ryan to do....and end up with bad pitching again.

#24 sorney

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:18 AM

Sometimes you have to overpay if you want to win. Kc just got alot better.


Good lord guys, its Ervin Santana not Johan in his prime. You know the guy with a career 4.33 era. 3.0 B/9 and 7.1 K/9. Edwin Jackson will probably be signed for a similar, albeit multiyear, deal. He's also a younger, better pitcher.



Yeah, the numbers aren't anything to shake a stick at, but a guy who misses some bats would be nice.
Although I would prefer Jackson as well.

#25 Twins Twerp

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:29 AM

and we wait for the dust to settle to see what our baseball guru will produce for us ,im guessing our rotation for 2013
moyer
wakefield
kevin correia
diamond
baker/gibson


Yes but scratch Baker and Gibson, we will sign Roger Clemens by the All Star Break.

#26 twinsnorth49

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:49 AM

Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.


Nobody said that.


It's being pretty strongly implied here by the people suggesting that KC getting Santana for beans isn't all that big news. Acquiring a pitcher better than anything we have for merely salary is exactly what this team should be doing right now, let's not ignore that.

Right now I'd be excited at anything that represents improvement in our pitching staff.

#27 wavedog

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

Positives for KC is that while $13M is likely overpaying - it is only a 1 year deal not a long-term commitment and they did not give up a player of much value. Santana has produced in the past - I seem to remember Santana would bounce back and forth between having a good year and bad year. Although nowhere near an ace - he probably would have been better than any of our pitchers except Diamond from this year. Maybe we are targeting for 3-4 year deals and did not have an interest in a one-year type deal or if we wanted to go 1-year deal we will bring Pavano back for $4M. I fear we will come up with something worse than Santana would have offered.

#28 Craig in MN

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

It's a pretty good move for KC, I think. I like Santana more than most, and I don't know how KC would bring in a better pitcher than the would in this trade. I think there's going to be massive salary inflation this year, so even for 13 million, he's a decent value. In a normal year, free agent Santana might get closer to 8 million, but not this year.

The big media contracts are going to kick in next year and enough GMs are going to be willing to use that now to get the better players that it will push up contracts. And there's enough money around with the other teams that they will be spending on the lesser free agents too. It's going to be a tough year for the Twins to bring in enough pitching to. Their only hope, I think, is being able to trade Morneau or and outfielder for a pitchers, and if the market is as expensive as it could be, that's a decent possibility.

#29 kab21

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:56 AM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][quote name='kab21'][quote name='USAFChief']Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.[/QUOTE]

Nobody said that.[/QUOTE]

It's being pretty strongly implied here by the people suggesting that KC getting Santana for beans isn't all that big news. Acquiring a pitcher better than anything we have for merely salary is exactly what this team should be doing right now, let's not ignore that.

Right now I'd be excited at anything that represents improvement in our pitching staff.[/QUOTE]

it's like you think the offseason is over and the Twins are going to spend an unlimited amount of money. I think the Twins will sign one 10+M/yr pitcher, Baker and one pile of crap. I'm hoping that the Twins are aiming a little higher than Ervin Santana for that 10+M/yr pitcher but that's just me.

#30 Nick Nelson

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Angels sent over $1 million in the deal so the Royals are paying $12M, not $13M. A bit more than the 1 year, $9M contract we predicted in the Handbook but not a ton and we all know the mantra about one-year deals. This is an indication that the Royals are serious about revamping their pitching staff and giving it a go next year, though I'm not at all convinced it's going to work out.

#31 Winston Smith

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

It's a start. Not a perfect pitcher by any means but he has shown he can be good. The problem with many teams the Royals and Twins among them is that when you have a really bad pitching staff it takes a lot to climb out of that hole. You can't just go out a trade for say a Fister, Sherzer or Sanchez to build a staff you need to band aid it together piece by piece and some of those guys may not be perfect.

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.

 

Yogi Berra


#32 ThePuck

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

Rays just exercised Shields' option...if the Twins are gonna trade Span or Revere, NOW is the time... cause the Rays need a good inexpensive CF....and many of the CFs on the market now will cost more. TB is one for the few teams who need a CF where we can get good value from in a trade due to his team friendly contract. Revere might even be more tempting due to salary.

#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

They will have to give up more than 1outfielder to get Shields.

#34 ThePuck

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:41 PM

They will have to give up more than 1outfielder to get Shields.


Clearly...the point was more about if they are gonna trade Span or Revere, the perfect fit would be TB and the perfect time would be now. TB won't exercise Shield's 2014 option and won't re-sign him, so they need to trade him soon. Teams know this

#35 PseudoSABR

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:03 PM

Rays just exercised Shields' option...if the Twins are gonna trade Span or Revere, NOW is the time... cause the Rays need a good inexpensive CF....and many of the CFs on the market now will cost more. TB is one for the few teams who need a CF where we can get good value from in a trade due to his team friendly contract. Revere might even be more tempting due to salary.

TB does have Jennings. He can play CF, can't he?

#36 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

They will have to give up more than 1outfielder to get Shields.


Clearly...the point was more about if they are gonna trade Span or Revere, the perfect fit would be TB and the perfect time would be now. TB won't exercise Shield's 2014 option and won't re-sign him, so they need to trade him soon. Teams know this

if the twins dont move fast and show other free agents there serious about competing ,i can think of no reason to come to twinkie town and hope not to lose 100 games,so get shields or johnson now...or sit on your thumbs and tell the fans we tried but no one wanted to take a cut rate offer and come here excepts capps and moyer....

the twins need to decide if there making a run at a title or rebuilding the only thing you get from straddeling the fense is sore balls
so either go big , or rebuild , just quit blowing smoke up our butts about how you think you put a competitive team on the field in march and april then complain in june ,,,,,
god bless the working people and go twins

#37 ThePuck

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

Rays just exercised Shields' option...if the Twins are gonna trade Span or Revere, NOW is the time... cause the Rays need a good inexpensive CF....and many of the CFs on the market now will cost more. TB is one for the few teams who need a CF where we can get good value from in a trade due to his team friendly contract. Revere might even be more tempting due to salary.

TB does have Jennings. He can play CF, can't he?


Well, he can go there....not sure if he can do the job in CF. Some TB fans I know seem to doubt it, but honestly I'm not sure.

#38 John Bonnes

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

I just heard some hand-wringing about this Santana move on the radio. Here's the thing: if the Twins would've made this move, I would have not have liked it. It's not a disaster - one-year deals are never disasters - but with limited resources, this isn't the way to spend $12M. The extra millions they spent on Ervin might not have been necessary, as he's a prime candidate for a one-year deal anyway this spring.

And don't get me wrong - I like Santana. He was a guy I was targeting, too. But if the Twins are spending $90M, they can't blow $12M of the $16M they have to spend on Santana. I'd much rather give a multi-year deal for similar money to better pitchers.

#39 John Bonnes

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

[quote name='ThePuck'][quote name='PseudoSABR'][quote name='ThePuck']Rays just exercised Shields' option...if the Twins are gonna trade Span or Revere, NOW is the time... cause the Rays need a good inexpensive CF....and many of the CFs on the market now will cost more. TB is one for the few teams who need a CF where we can get good value from in a trade due to his team friendly contract. Revere might even be more tempting due to salary.[/QUOTE]
TB does have Jennings. He can play CF, can't he?[/QUOTE]


Well, he can go there....not sure if he can do the job in CF. Some TB fans I know seem to doubt it, but honestly I'm not sure.[/QUOTE]

Jason Collette, who I trust, says the Rays are almost undoubtedly going to be interested in acquiring a CFer this year. He wouldn't rule out a Shields for Span deal, straight up.

#40 PseudoSABR

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

I just heard some hand-wringing about this Santana move on the radio. Here's the thing: if the Twins would've made this move, I would have not have liked it. It's not a disaster - one-year deals are never disasters - but with limited resources, this isn't the way to spend $12M. The extra millions they spent on Ervin might not have been necessary, as he's a prime candidate for a one-year deal anyway this spring.

And don't get me wrong - I like Santana. He was a guy I was targeting, too. But if the Twins are spending $90M, they can't blow $12M of the $16M they have to spend on Santana. I'd much rather give a multi-year deal for similar money to better pitchers.

I agree.

In any case, a one year deal doesn't work to the Twins advantage as it would in most years, with Morneau's 14mil coming off the books. Signing a pitcher (esp. one with a better recent track record) to a two or three year deal isn't the sinking ship it could be in most years because of the future payroll flexibility.

There's nearly a half dozen (if not more) FA pitchers I'd rather have than Santana, who might even come cheaper.