Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Photo

Royals Destroy My Dreams, Acquire Ervin Santana

  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,321 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:15 PM

According to Ken Rosenthal, the Royals have acquired RHP Ervin Santana from the LA Angels. Rumors were that the Angels were looking to deal Santana and Dan Haren, and that if they couldn't, they would likely decline their options for 2013. Well, the Royals apparently are willing to bet $13 Million that he'll turn things around in 2013. Who the Royals traded to the Angels at this point is unknown.

I thought that Santana was a great choice for a bounce-back season in 2013. If you look at his numbers, he has been very good and pretty durable most of the past five years.

So, can Santana be a bounce-back pitcher for the Royals OR will he be this year's Jonathan Sanchez?

UPDATE - The Angels acquire 27-year-old LHP Brandon Sisk, who posted a 1.35 WHIP in AAA in 2012. In other words, the Royals gave up just slightly over nothing to acquire a potential solid #2. Nice work for the Royals!

Edited by Seth Stohs, 31 October 2012 - 03:19 PM.
updated


#2 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,661 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

So if the Angels only required Nothing to give up Santana, does that mean they'll give up Next to Nothing for Haren should the buying team be willing to eat most of the salary?

#3 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,527 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:26 PM

Smart move by the Royals.

#4 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,350 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

I think Haren has a 3.5 buy out. I'd be happy to give up a 20's prospect for Haren and 3.5 mill.
This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

#5 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:39 PM

and we wait for the dust to settle to see what our baseball guru will produce for us ,im guessing our rotation for 2013
moyer
wakefield
kevin correia
diamond
baker/gibson

#6 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,328 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:29 PM

I'm not sure that I'm buying this Santana has been very good for the last 5 years business. His ERA has been bouncing between 3.50 and 5 and his XFIP has been bouncing between 4 and 4.50. He had the one great season in '08 (K:BB rates) and it looked like he was poised to become an ace. Then he hurt his elbow and has never come close to repeating those K and BB rates (velocity declined). He was a solid pickup but he really isn't that exciting.

#7 iastfan112

iastfan112

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 204 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:33 PM

Eh, not a bad move by the Royals but certainly nothing worth writing home about. WAR the past 4 years: 1.0, 2.2, 2.9, -0.9. He's getting paid 12 million by the Royals. Lets say he bounces back in the 2.5 WAR range, he's still getting paid at pretty much a market rate.

#8 jjswol

jjswol

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts
  • LocationMinnesota or Florida

Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

I thnk this a great trade for the Royals getting Santana for next to nothing. Sure they will pay most of the $13 million salary but they send a nice message to their fans telling them that they are willing to try to improve even after gettig burnt on the Jonathan Sanchez deal last winter. KC seems to be collecting pitchers.
[FONT=arial black]jjswol
[/FONT]

#9 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,580 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:48 PM

I wouldn't call 13 million nothing. I'd rather pay Baker 9.25 million than pay Santana 13 million while giving up a C prospect.

Santana has to be ecstatic. There is no way he gets that contract as a free agent.

#10 YourHouseIsMyHouse

YourHouseIsMyHouse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,235 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

His pay rate is way too high and I like the salary dump for the Angels in this. I don't think this a good move for the Royals since Santana is a career 4.33 ERA pitcher. Nothing special and he's really more like a #3 option at best in terms of performance.

#11 sorney

sorney

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 134 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:11 PM

Agree. A little too much cash for his performance, but it might be a case of overpaying because of ack of alternatives

#12 iastfan112

iastfan112

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 204 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:20 PM

I presume the Royals idea is if they aren't competitive at the deadline to flip him for a better prospect then.

#13 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

Getting Santana for nothing but salary is the type of move the Twins would make if ownership was serious about winning. Teams needing to put together 4/5ths of a rotation don't have the luxery of waiting for perfect solutions.

Nice move for KC, whether it works or not.

Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.

#14 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,328 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:50 PM

Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.


Nobody said that.

#15 old nurse

old nurse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,686 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:46 PM

Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.


Nobody said that.


But did they think it? Not everybody posts every thought they have. The person who thinks the Twins are going to sign Jamie Moyer ought to not post every crazy thought.

Edited by old nurse, 31 October 2012 - 09:48 PM.


#16 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 1,956 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:56 PM

The Royals acquired a scuffling, but talented Sanchez last year, and that didn't work out well at all. I question the Royal's ability to spot major league arms.

#17 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 1,956 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Getting Santana for nothing but salary is the type of move the Twins would make if ownership was serious about winning. Teams needing to put together 4/5ths of a rotation don't have the luxery of waiting for perfect solutions.

Sure, but the pitcher whom they acquire actually does matter. In FA they can acquire a pitcher for nothing but salary. Santana has all kinds of questions marks, and might be the wrong pitcher, even if the right type of move.

#18 iastfan112

iastfan112

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 204 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

Getting Santana for nothing but salary is the type of move the Twins would make if ownership was serious about winning. Teams needing to put together 4/5ths of a rotation don't have the luxery of waiting for perfect solutions.

Sure, but the pitcher whom they acquire actually does matter. In FA they can acquire a pitcher for nothing but salary. Santana has all kinds of questions marks, and might be the wrong pitcher, even if the right type of move.


Santana was acquired for pretty much just salary as well, they really only gave up a version of Slama. The question of course is, was it good value. Acquiring a middling pitcher on a not particularly friendly contract isn't exactly an excellent move. There's a reason Santana only brought what he did, all the other teams said "Overpaid".

#19 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

Sometimes you have to overpay if you want to win. Kc just got alot better.

#20 iastfan112

iastfan112

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 204 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

Sometimes you have to overpay if you want to win. Kc just got alot better.


Good lord guys, its Ervin Santana not Johan in his prime. You know the guy with a career 4.33 era. 3.0 B/9 and 7.1 K/9. Edwin Jackson will probably be signed for a similar, albeit multiyear, deal. He's also a younger, better pitcher.

#21 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

Getting Santana for nothing but salary is the type of move the Twins would make if ownership was serious about winning. Teams needing to put together 4/5ths of a rotation don't have the luxery of waiting for perfect solutions.

Sure, but the pitcher whom they acquire actually does matter. In FA they can acquire a pitcher for nothing but salary. Santana has all kinds of questions marks, and might be the wrong pitcher, even if the right type of move.


If the Twins pick up four FA pitchers equal to or better than Santana, on one year deals, I'll retract.

#22 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 818 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:38 AM

Lots of unknowns here. Velocity decline this year would have me worried. I assume the Royals checked his medical reports. Still think Twins could do better than this. Would be interested in what the Angels wanted for Haren and how much salary the Twins would have to take on to work a deal. Move by the Royal was better than doing nothing. A low level prospect to the Angels for Haren and cash is intreging.

#23 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 5,843 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

Every available pitcher has issues....worse news, this give the Angels money to sign Greinke. So two pitchers go off the market, and people willing to pay real money are no longer waiting for Greinke to decide.

These boards are going to nitpick every pitcher the Twins do not acquire, to explain why passing on them all was a good decision. Just like I expect Ryan to do....and end up with bad pitching again.

#24 sorney

sorney

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 134 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:18 AM

Sometimes you have to overpay if you want to win. Kc just got alot better.


Good lord guys, its Ervin Santana not Johan in his prime. You know the guy with a career 4.33 era. 3.0 B/9 and 7.1 K/9. Edwin Jackson will probably be signed for a similar, albeit multiyear, deal. He's also a younger, better pitcher.



Yeah, the numbers aren't anything to shake a stick at, but a guy who misses some bats would be nice.
Although I would prefer Jackson as well.

#25 Twins Twerp

Twins Twerp

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 784 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:29 AM

and we wait for the dust to settle to see what our baseball guru will produce for us ,im guessing our rotation for 2013
moyer
wakefield
kevin correia
diamond
baker/gibson


Yes but scratch Baker and Gibson, we will sign Roger Clemens by the All Star Break.

#26 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 3,679 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:49 AM

Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.


Nobody said that.


It's being pretty strongly implied here by the people suggesting that KC getting Santana for beans isn't all that big news. Acquiring a pitcher better than anything we have for merely salary is exactly what this team should be doing right now, let's not ignore that.

Right now I'd be excited at anything that represents improvement in our pitching staff.

#27 wavedog

wavedog

    Member

  • Members
  • 83 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

Positives for KC is that while $13M is likely overpaying - it is only a 1 year deal not a long-term commitment and they did not give up a player of much value. Santana has produced in the past - I seem to remember Santana would bounce back and forth between having a good year and bad year. Although nowhere near an ace - he probably would have been better than any of our pitchers except Diamond from this year. Maybe we are targeting for 3-4 year deals and did not have an interest in a one-year type deal or if we wanted to go 1-year deal we will bring Pavano back for $4M. I fear we will come up with something worse than Santana would have offered.

#28 Craig in MN

Craig in MN

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

It's a pretty good move for KC, I think. I like Santana more than most, and I don't know how KC would bring in a better pitcher than the would in this trade. I think there's going to be massive salary inflation this year, so even for 13 million, he's a decent value. In a normal year, free agent Santana might get closer to 8 million, but not this year.

The big media contracts are going to kick in next year and enough GMs are going to be willing to use that now to get the better players that it will push up contracts. And there's enough money around with the other teams that they will be spending on the lesser free agents too. It's going to be a tough year for the Twins to bring in enough pitching to. Their only hope, I think, is being able to trade Morneau or and outfielder for a pitchers, and if the market is as expensive as it could be, that's a decent possibility.

#29 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,328 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:56 AM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][quote name='kab21'][quote name='USAFChief']Anybody who thinks Santana doesn't represent a likely upgrade to what the Twins ran out in 2012, or wouldn't represent a probable upgrade to what they will likely run out in 2013, hasn't been paying much attention.[/QUOTE]

Nobody said that.[/QUOTE]

It's being pretty strongly implied here by the people suggesting that KC getting Santana for beans isn't all that big news. Acquiring a pitcher better than anything we have for merely salary is exactly what this team should be doing right now, let's not ignore that.

Right now I'd be excited at anything that represents improvement in our pitching staff.[/QUOTE]

it's like you think the offseason is over and the Twins are going to spend an unlimited amount of money. I think the Twins will sign one 10+M/yr pitcher, Baker and one pile of crap. I'm hoping that the Twins are aiming a little higher than Ervin Santana for that 10+M/yr pitcher but that's just me.

#30 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,043 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Angels sent over $1 million in the deal so the Royals are paying $12M, not $13M. A bit more than the 1 year, $9M contract we predicted in the Handbook but not a ton and we all know the mantra about one-year deals. This is an indication that the Royals are serious about revamping their pitching staff and giving it a go next year, though I'm not at all convinced it's going to work out.