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#21 mikelink45

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 08:52 AM

I always wonder why a team like the A's would not keep a relatively inexpensive pitcher like Bailey.They are not a team that wastes cheap talent. 

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#22 Nick Nelson

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:11 AM

 

I always wonder why a team like the A's would not keep a relatively inexpensive pitcher like Bailey.They are not a team that wastes cheap talent. 

You can never have too much pitching of course, but it's worth noting that right now he wouldn't be among their top five or six starters, which says more about the quality of their rotation mix than him. A's are stacked. 

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#23 jorgenswest

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:23 AM

With the late adds of Pineda and then Hill there will be constant competition and early opportunity for the young pitchers. Bailey has 8 starts to show that he is a step above Thorpe, Dobnak, Graterol or Smeltzer? He is going to need to start strong.

Last year Perez started strong. Even at the trade deadline his ERA was sitting above league average at 4.38. In his three starts between the all star break and trade deadline two of them were quality starts with a poor start against the Yankees but no one had a good start in the series. The wheels came off in his first two August starts.

It would be a good signing if Bailey hits the trade deadline above league average. I am hoping that one of the young pitchers does even better and the bar is set higher to stay in the rotation.
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#24 spycake

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:32 AM

 

I always wonder why a team like the A's would not keep a relatively inexpensive pitcher like Bailey.They are not a team that wastes cheap talent. 

The A's can be even more frugal than the Twins. Their payroll cap is maybe ~70% of the Twins. $7 mil is a bigger relative commitment to them -- they only have one SP making that much in 2020, and may not feel they have room for another. (Or need, as Nick alludes to -- even without Bailey and losing Brett Anderson, they still have Fiers, Bassitt, Montas, Manaea, Luzardo, Puk, etc.)

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#25 Dman

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:42 AM

 

Someone will have to come off the 40-man once the Bailey and Hill signings are official...so who's your guess?

 

Wisler

Poppen

Harper

 

Come to mind

 

If they do lose someone I hope it is Wisler as he can't be sent down as he has no options left.I don't love Harper but he was fairly effective especially early in the year.I assume that is why the Twins are hanging onto him as long as possible.I don't know if Poppens stuff will translate to MLB but would be nice to give him a longer shot than what he got last year.

 

The Twins could also try and work a trade for Raley or Wade to clear a spot.They technically have one too many outfielders on the 40 man IMO.Needing to add Celestino this early kind of hurt and while Wade and Raley are nice 4th outfielder options we have Kirilloff and Larnach not far off in fact they might be ready later this year if things go right.

 

Lot's of possibilities but my first choice would be Wisler.


#26 MMMordabito

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:58 AM

Perez has the same haircut as Bailey, but Bailey's is slightly better.

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#27 Doctor Gast

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:01 AM

I too would have preferred Gibson & Perez than what materialized. I think all our pitchers petered out at the end (except Pineida) but more so Gibson & Perez. I believe Gibson will manage his colitis. It seems that Perez can`t pitch 7 innings through out the season, him w/ Pineada as an opener worked well. Perez could be used more w/ an opener if there isn`t anything else the matter w/ him. As was stated the release of Gibson & Perez would have been OK if we had made an improvement. FA didn`t happened so we were hoping for some trade


#28 spycake

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:08 AM

 

With the late adds of Pineda and then Hill there will be constant competition and early opportunity for the young pitchers. Bailey has 8 starts to show that he is a step above Thorpe, Dobnak, Graterol or Smeltzer? He is going to need to start strong.

I'm pretty sure the bar for Bailey to stay in the rotation past May 10th is considerably lower than that. But you might be right by July.


#29 wabene

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:12 AM

At 7 million, it seems like a good bet they will him out there until he is hurt, even if he is a terrible as Perez became.

If he becomes the next Perez... He can't be allowed to remain in the rotation as long as the old Perez was allowed to. 
 
Signing a free agent who doesn't perform is a mistake any front office can and will make. 
 
Doubling down on that mistake by continuing to play that mistake is something every front office can avoid.

I'm ok with this type of signing as long as we load up on depth and play the hot hand. They did bench Schoop last year maybe they will not be averse to cutting their losses with a pitcher.
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#30 PDX Twin

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:23 AM

 

Am I wrong to be concerned about a pitcher whose name is David Dewitt Bailey, Jr., but whose nickname is "Homer"?

 

In case there was any doubt before, this season is now destined to be an Odyssey!

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#31 cardsfan

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:36 AM

So I'd say Bailey, as poor to average as he has been over his career, he still has had a career. Sort of, so he has at different points in time, had some success. Last year was one of those years. Whereas Perez started the year very hot, then he really faded down the stretch. I was shocked at how hard he was throwing at the beginning of the year, it seemed like he lost some of that velocity as the year wore on? Everyone was surprised at the 95-96 mph at the beginning of the year and they were comparing him to Johan Santana. So he definitely had the stuff at one point, then it disappeard? So I kinda though they would have brought him back, they had an option on him, maybe do a little more fixing, but they didn't. So now we have Bailey, he has done some stuff in his career, now we will see if the Twins can squeeze out one good year out of him.

From 2015-2018 his WHIP was 1.68. Last year he reduced it to 1.3 facing a lot of bad teams in August.

Someone you need in October along with Rich Hill.

#32 JLease

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:45 AM

I'd prefer Gibson over Bailey (or Hill, who can't be trusted) but I have zero interest in Perez. I was fine with bringing Gibson back, but understood that he might need a fresh start considering his baggage in MN (years as a tease, the recent injury struggles, etc). And I get not throwing money at him while you're trying to land Wheeler, Bumgarner, or Ryu (all better pitchers). But replacing him with Homer Bailey is thoroughly uninspiring.

 

The commitment is relatively light and it's better to have a guy like him with some potential in place for the start of the season over needing 2 guys to step up from internal rookie-type options, but it's hard to pretend this is a good option, more like a least-bad one.

 

Now, if they sign Donaldson it's a successful off-season anyways, just maybe not the A-plan. But if they can't get Donaldson, they really need to make a move on the trade market.

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#33 USAFChief

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:52 AM

I'd prefer Gibson over Bailey (or Hill, who can't be trusted) but I have zero interest in Perez. I was fine with bringing Gibson back, but understood that he might need a fresh start considering his baggage in MN (years as a tease, the recent injury struggles, etc). And I get not throwing money at him while you're trying to land Wheeler, Bumgarner, or Ryu (all better pitchers). But replacing him with Homer Bailey is thoroughly uninspiring.

The commitment is relatively light and it's better to have a guy like him with some potential in place for the start of the season over needing 2 guys to step up from internal rookie-type options, but it's hard to pretend this is a good option, more like a least-bad one.

Now, if they sign Donaldson it's a successful off-season anyways, just maybe not the A-plan. But if they can't get Donaldson, they really need to make a move on the trade market.


Concur on paragraphs 1 and 2.

But IMO even signing Donaldson, or trading for a starter cant rescue this off season. Better, for sure, but they've already failed.
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#34 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:56 AM

 

From 2015-2018 his WHIP was 1.68. Last year he reduced it to 1.3 facing a lot of bad teams in August.

Someone you need in October along with Rich Hill.

 

Um, in August of 2019, Bailey faced the Brewers, the Cubs, the Giants, the Royals, and the Yankees twice.Combined win percentage of those teams was .529, which is the equivalent of an 86 win team.Only one of the bunch was truly bad, one was pretty good, and the Yankees were obviously great.

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#35 DocBauer

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:10 AM

I would have preferred someone younger like Wood or Walker on a 1+1 deal as the upside is much greater, IMO, though the floor might be lower if they just can't make it back.

Which leads to the premise of the
OP discussing Bailey vs Perez. Bailey had success for a period if time before injury derailed his career. He had a bounce back in 2019 and finished strong, someone you can't say about my preferred and previously stated options.

Bailey has also already had some career success whereas Perez really hadn't until the first months of last season.

In short, there is every reason to believe Bailey, IF actually performing well/solidly should maintain and not fall off a cliff the way Perez did.
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#36 JLease

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:12 AM

 

Concur on paragraphs 1 and 2.

But IMO even signing Donaldson, or trading for a starter cant rescue this off season. Better, for sure, but they've already failed.

 

That's a pretty limited view, and frankly I don't want a front office that can only see one path to success. Donaldson is an elite player, a former MVP who improves the team substantially and would do a lot to guard against regression for the offense while making a big improvement to the defense. Yes, he's not the elite pitcher we all wanted, but we're not the only team who whiffed on landing that impact starting pitching.

 

Bailey's a stop-gap, insurance against not making a trade for a better player, IMHO. Or Thorpe/Graterol not being ready to counted on as starters. He's just a guy and we're rolling the dice on our excellent pitching coach being able to get something out of him, at least until Pineda is back or Hill is available again. It's not the worst bet in the world and it's a move to keep the floor from falling out, and as I've noted before: a significant aspect to season-long success is keeping innings (or ABs, or time in the field) out of the hands of terrible players. 

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#37 SwainZag

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:18 AM

 

Concur on paragraphs 1 and 2.

But IMO even signing Donaldson, or trading for a starter cant rescue this off season. Better, for sure, but they've already failed.

 

So the only scenario where the FO could succeed this off-season was to sign one of a small handful of big name free agent starting pitchers?I would hope that the line between failing and succeeding would be a broader scope and include at least a few more options than that.

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#38 tvagle

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:29 AM

 

No, Pineda is on the ineligible list until his suspension ends. So we can be at 41 counting him, Bailey, and Hill -- no need to remove anyone yet.

I sit corrected

I'm going to need a Falvine definition of the word IMPACT in regards to MLB Hurlers


#39 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:32 AM

So the only scenario where the FO could succeed this off-season was to sign one of a small handful of big name free agent starting pitchers? I would hope that the line between failing and succeeding would be a broader scope and include at least a few more options than that.


This was the largest and best free agent starting pitching class in years, maybe decades. They had one, huge, glaring, weakness.

So far, they've added a number five starter, and a guy who won't be healthy until July.

Would you can that a success?
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#40 wabene

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:44 AM


This was the largest and best free agent starting pitching class in years, maybe decades. They had one, huge, glaring, weakness.
So far, they've added a number five starter, and a guy who won't be healthy until July.
Would you can that a success?

They also signed Odo and Pineda and we still have 2 months left. So far they have signed the free agent pitchers Gleeman had ranked as the 6th,8th and 13th best available. Something like that. Plus wherever he had Bailey ranked. Hill was at 13 because of availability concerns but if healthy he will pitch as well as the best on the list. One more big acquisition, either Donaldson or a trade for a pitcher and we are looking pretty good. Hard to be patient though.
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