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Salt, meet wound

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#21 mike wants wins

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:21 AM

One of the worst trades ever. I thought they had signed Nishioka to play 2nd, with Hardy at SS. They have this picture in their head that Hardy and college players do not align with.

#22 PseudoSABR

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:25 AM

We didn't need a gold glove award to tell us Hardy was a good defender. In fact with Jones winning over Trout, I think the gold glove works against Hardy's ability to play defense. Gold glove is a hustle/good guy award.

#23 old nurse

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:28 AM

We need to draft MI and SP only. No more Relief Pitchers, outfielders, or corner outfielders. Maybe a few catchers now and then. The next stud SS for the Twins will be the first in my 25 year lifetime.


By your picture I thought you were around for Roy Smalley
BTW Aren't players with home run potential usually at a corner position to begin with?

Edited by old nurse, 31 October 2012 - 11:34 AM.


#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

One of the worst trades ever.


Ryne Sandberg and the Philadelphia Phillies disagree.

#25 gunnarthor

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:48 AM

One of the worst trades ever. .


Bit of an overstatement. We got rid of one year of Hardy, it's not remotely the worst trade ever. And, frankly, it was a very defensible trade at the time. Hardy missed a lot of games in 2010, leaving Gardy with a 24 man bench. His play had declined two years in a row and he was due a large raise in his arbitration year. The Twins decided that money would be better spent on Thome and Pavano.

#26 StormJH1

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:59 AM

By the time the Twins traded Hardy, they already had signed Nishioka, so it wasn't exactly a surprise. While he hadn't been an All-Star by any means, with the Twins, he certainly was an improvement over what we'd seen at SS prior to his arrival. Nishioka was an entertaining sideshow initially, but even among those of us who didn't see Hardy as being terrific, I think the reaction was more along the lines of, "OK, you think this is an improvement... you'd better be right." Obviously, the Twins weren't right and the fact that the players they got in return bombed just made things worse.

I'm happy for Hardy that he's been having success and congratulations to the Orioles on getting the best end of this particular trade.



That's right. The Twins basically got a free pass at the time because there was excitement over this Japanese shortstop they were bringing over, who was going to hit like Ichiro and field like Omar Vizquel. When those predictions turned out to be jussssst a bit off, we were left holding the bag.

#27 StormJH1

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

One of the worst trades ever. I thought they had signed Nishioka to play 2nd, with Hardy at SS. They have this picture in their head that Hardy and college players do not align with.


Actually no. I mean, we can't say for sure what Bill Smith and Gardy were thinking at the time (as opposed to publicly saying), but I'm fairly certain that Nishioka was understood to be the Opening Day shortstop, since he was a "Gold Glove" equivalent at that position in Japan. It's not like the Japanese infields are smaller or anything. Only when they got him into Spring Training did they have concerns about hit arm strength enough that Gardy moved him to 2B. Only took him a week to break his leg there because he didn't know how to bail out of DP situations.

Even when Nishioka fielded a ball cleanly, he had to get a rid of it very quickly because he had no arm. This probably exacerbated his other consistency problems. He was like a poor man's David Eckstein out there, if David Eckstein was also a headcase.

#28 mike wants wins

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

I said "I thought", not "they thought". And yes, that was obviously an exaggeration. But it was an awful trade.

#29 Parker Hageman

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

It's not like the Japanese infields are smaller or anything.


They are all artificial turf -- aside from one field.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." -- Jim Bouton, "Ball Four"


#30 h2oface

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:59 PM

My biggest issue with the Hardy loss lies in the rumors that the Twins and Hardy butted heads on his reluctance to hit to all fields. Willingham and Plouffe showed this year that for right handed hitters, Hardy's philosopy was the correct one at Target Field.


according to hardy............. that is not a rumor. that comes from hardy.

#31 CDog

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

My biggest issue with the Hardy loss lies in the rumors that the Twins and Hardy butted heads on his reluctance to hit to all fields. Willingham and Plouffe showed this year that for right handed hitters, Hardy's philosopy was the correct one at Target Field.


according to hardy............. that is not a rumor. that comes from hardy.


According to the same Hardy that gave credit to Vavra and his approach of going with the pitch for turning him around and helping him greatly? That same one?

#32 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

I didn't have a problem with trading Hardy at the time. I think if they would have received two relievers who were at least decent it wouldn't have been so bad. But getting nothing for him, and then him going and having his one great year last year kind of combined to a perfect storm. I'm surprised he didn't win the Gold Glove last year when he hit better.


I had a problem and I still do. SS has been an issue for the Twins forever. The had a younger, good hitting and fielding replacement that they gave away for nothing. In the context of that, it would have to go down as one of the worst Twins moves in recent memory.

#33 snepp

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure there were more than a few here (maybe with paper bags over their heads now) who were fine with jettisoning the fragile Hardy for the next big thing from Japan.

Besides, to reiterate, Gold Gloves are kind of stupid. Mike Trout didn't win one? That pretty much says it all.


There's nothing 20/20 about it. The Hardy deal was horse**** right from day 1, and it was widely panned as such.


Besides, to reiterate, the GG has nothing to do with it. As already noted, it's just a dash of salt in an already gaping wound.

#34 Badsmerf

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

The Twins got a pass "at the time?" Is anyone serious with those statements? I remember complete fanatical melt-downs on the topic. Also, it was worse with Nishi because of how much money they were throwing at him and his clear lack of proven track record. Giving away Hardy for nothing was a huge mistake, amplified by the lack of competent options in the organization.
Do or do not. There is no try.

#35 wavedog

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:04 PM

I do remember a lot of questions at the time of the trade - we had just traded for him the year before and he did not have a bad season. I know he was injured a little but he still played at the end of the season and in the playoffs. Adding salt to the wound that we traded him for a couple of beans instead of a major league ready player. He certainly must have rubbed somebody wrong in the organization. What was the timing - did we sign Nishi first - $4M signing fee plus $3M salary - so we had to dump Hardy's salary equivalent? That was gold.

#36 The Greatest Poster Alive

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

Posted Image

DAE WANT RAMOS BACK?

#37 mikeee

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

I always liked Hardy...

#38 ThePuck

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

Let's get the timeline right. Twins announced Hardy was traded in an article written on the 9th of December. Twins announced they had signed Nishioka in an article written on the 17th. In other words, Hardy was traded before Nishioka was a Twin, not the other way around. And yes, I know they won the rights to Nishi around the same time...but it wasn't a done deal

Nishi was also brought in to play 2B cause Gardy was planning on using Casilla at shortstop. Saying he liked how Casilla came in on balls along with his speed and athleticism. He even went so far as to say, before Hardy was trade, that even if Hardy was on the team, Casilla would compete with him for shortstop.

Edited by ThePuck, 01 November 2012 - 04:31 PM.


#39 ThePuck

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

I always liked Hardy...


I was downright giddy when we signed him and absolutely pissed when we traded him

#40 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

I always liked Hardy...


I was downright giddy when we signed him and absolutely pissed when we traded him


My sentiments exactly.