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Article: Capps Redux?

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...133-Capps-Redux

#2 sorney

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:44 AM

I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.

#3 wavedog

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:22 AM

He would not be my first choice, but I could see him as a fallback if we don't sign a free agent off the street. He is better than some of the other right-handed relievers we have with the exception of Burton. We should be able to sign him for under $2M to be the 7th inning/8th inning guy behind Burton.

#4 Winston Smith

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:04 AM

I would not be surprised to see Capps, Pavano, Baker and Blackburn all with the Twins come opening day. I'd be really disappointed but not surprised.

#5 johnnydakota

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.

you hit that out of the park , perfectly said

#6 CDog

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:15 AM

I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.

you hit that out of the park , perfectly said


Except Punto's had 500 AB's in a season exactly ZERO times. He's hit 500 PA's only twice. In one of those years he put up a 290/352/373. Were you sad about not getting more time for Tony Batista that year? Or was it someone else you just had to have on the field to feel good? The following year he got to 500 PA's again and was pretty bad at the plate....and I'm still not sure who on that roster you were wanting to play instead. I promise you it's possible to be snarky and negative without telling lies. Although you might have to think a tad more, that's not the worst thing in the world.

#7 nicksaviking

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

Going out of your way to bring back the scapegoats from a terrible team is a great way to endear oneself to a fanbase on the brink of revolt.

#8 johnnydakota

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:29 AM

[quote name='CDog'][quote name='johnnydakota'][quote name='sorney']I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.[/QUOTE]
you hit that out of the park , perfectly said[/QUOTE]

Except Punto's had 500 AB's in a season exactly ZERO times. He's hit 500 PA's only twice. In one of those years he put up a 290/352/373. Were you sad about not getting more time for Tony Batista that year? Or was it someone else you just had to have on the field to feel good? The following year he got to 500 PA's again and was pretty bad at the plate....and I'm still not sure who on that roster you were wanting to play instead. I promise you it's possible to be snarky and negative without telling lies. Although you might have to think a tad more, that's not the worst thing in the world.[/QUOTE]
there is nothing wrong with little nicky , just someone whos name i wont say , decided punto was going to be what he wasnt ....a starter, nick is a very good sub , not a starter, imagine if harmon ,bert and rod played for gardenhire , none would be in the hof today,bert missed to many bats and anderson would limit him to 5-6 innings , harmon would be benched for not going the other way and rod would need to be more versitle and need more then 30 games a year on the bench so that jim nettles and jerry terrel could stay fresh

#9 Riverbrian

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

Nick Punto... The Memories of Nick Punto...You could look at it this way... We won a lot of games when Punto was an active member of our Roster. We've lost a lot of games since he has left our roster.

I'm not saying Punto is the reason. I'm saying he clearly didn't hurt our club during his stay. He gave it everything he had and came to play everyday. I refuse to hate him.

As for Capps... Too expensive for the output. We can do better. We need a flamethower or two out of the pen who can get a strikeout with runners on 2nd and 3rd and nobody out.

#10 sorney

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

[quote name='CDog'][quote name='johnnydakota'][quote name='sorney']I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.[/QUOTE]
you hit that out of the park , perfectly said[/QUOTE]

Except Punto's had 500 AB's in a season exactly ZERO times. He's hit 500 PA's only twice. In one of those years he put up a 290/352/373. Were you sad about not getting more time for Tony Batista that year? Or was it someone else you just had to have on the field to feel good? The following year he got to 500 PA's again and was pretty bad at the plate....and I'm still not sure who on that roster you were wanting to play instead. I promise you it's possible to be snarky and negative without telling lies. Although you might have to think a tad more, that's not the worst thing in the world.[/QUOTE]


Calm down brother...it was meant as hyperbole.

#11 jmlease1

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

Heck, I'm even ok with Capps being used as a "closer" again, so long as he's not PAID like one. That would keep Perkins in use in likely more high-leverage roles and be more of a classic "fireman". as long as we collect him on the cheap ($1-2M) he'd be a useful piece.

#12 mysonlikes7

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

[quote name='CDog'][quote name='johnnydakota'][quote name='sorney']I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.[/QUOTE]
you hit that out of the park , perfectly said[/QUOTE]

Except Punto's had 500 AB's in a season exactly ZERO times. He's hit 500 PA's only twice. In one of those years he put up a 290/352/373. Were you sad about not getting more time for Tony Batista that year? Or was it someone else you just had to have on the field to feel good? The following year he got to 500 PA's again and was pretty bad at the plate....and I'm still not sure who on that roster you were wanting to play instead. I promise you it's possible to be snarky and negative without telling lies. Although you might have to think a tad more, that's not the worst thing in the world.[/QUOTE]

When I initally ready sorney's comment, I didn't immediately run to the Twins official stat book to see if Punto indeed had 500 ABs like CDog did. And obviously Sorney didn't consult the stat book before writing his comment. Sorney made his point effectively through a bit of exaggeration. You don't need to take every stat written in the comments section as the gospel truth. Relax and take the comments, especially the ones that are dripping with sarcasm and exaggeration, for what they are.

#13 righty8383

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

[QUOTE=johnnydakota;60611[/QUOTE]
harmon would be benched for not going the other way [/QUOTE]

You had some good points going until this part. Please tell me you were grossly exaggerating just to make a point.

#14 CDog

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.



Calm down brother...it was meant as hyperbole.


So what we're left with is that you wanted to come here and put stink on Gardenhire for an imagined and invented mis-use of a theoretical 2013 Capps by using an exaggerated (one could say BS instead) accusation of mis-use of a past player ( when that was more accurately probably the best player available to be used in the role in question)? Am I calm enough to have that about right?

#15 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:09 PM

Capps can't come back for multiple reasons:

1) He would be to expensive for a middle relief / setup man the Twins would use him for.

2) The Twins bullpen is decent. A right handed middle reliever is not needed right now.

3) It would be an unmitigated PR disaster. Capps is the poster child for all of the poor decisions made in recent years by the Twins. Bringing him back would be a reminder of the loss of Ramos, the draft pick, and $13 mil for 12 blown saves.

Capps is a capable reliever, just not a high paid closer. He just needs to go away.

#16 Kwak

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:42 PM

No need to beat a dead horse. If Ryan intends to sign three SPs, and stay within budget, some salary has to be shed. By admitting the need for three new SPs that implies the team is nearly in complete rebuild mode, especially with other statements concerning 3B and SS. The Morneau issue has yet to reach the "comment stage", but it must and will reach it.

#17 It's The Trees.

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

did anyone else think capps was about 36, and not 29?

#18 Nick Nelson

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:46 PM

3) It would be an unmitigated PR disaster. Capps is the poster child for all of the poor decisions made in recent years by the Twins. Bringing him back would be a reminder of the loss of Ramos, the draft pick, and $13 mil for 12 blown saves.

This shouldn't be a consideration, in my opinion. The Twins shouldn't let public perception of a potential move dictate whether they do it or not. If it's a good baseball decision, you make it happen. Certainly they should move on if he's looking for anything more than a couple million, but I'm not sure he'll be able to do so. He ranks pretty low on the list of free agent relievers and the Twins won't be all over him early driving up the price again.

Also, saying a "middle-handed reliever is not needed right now" is awfully cavalier based on out-of-nowhere performances from a couple injury-prone guys in their late 20s. I like Burton and Fien as much as the next guy but it doesn't hurt to hedge your bets a little bit.

#19 sorney

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

[quote name='CDog'][quote name='sorney'][quote name='sorney']I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.[/QUOTE]


Calm down brother...it was meant as hyperbole.[/QUOTE]

So what we're left with is that you wanted to come here and put stink on Gardenhire for an imagined and invented mis-use of a theoretical 2013 Capps by using an exaggerated (one could say BS instead) accusation of mis-use of a past player ( when that was more accurately probably the best player available to be used in the role in question)? Am I calm enough to have that about right?[/QUOTE]

its been a pleasure....

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:21 PM

Also, saying a "middle-handed reliever is not needed right now" is awfully cavalier based on out-of-nowhere performances from a couple injury-prone guys in their late 20s. I like Burton and Fien as much as the next guy but it doesn't hurt to hedge your bets a little bit.


+1.

Not that it matters, but on another subject...I find myself agreeing with cdog in this thread. First time for everything, I guess. ;)

#21 twinsnorth49

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

[quote name='sorney'][quote name='CDog'][quote name='sorney'][quote name='sorney']I view Capps the same way I viewed Punto....they can't sign him because Gardy, much like with giving Punto 500 at bats, won't be able to help himself and will use him as a closer.[/QUOTE]


Calm down brother...it was meant as hyperbole.[/QUOTE]

So what we're left with is that you wanted to come here and put stink on Gardenhire for an imagined and invented mis-use of a theoretical 2013 Capps by using an exaggerated (one could say BS instead) accusation of mis-use of a past player ( when that was more accurately probably the best player available to be used in the role in question)? Am I calm enough to have that about right?[/QUOTE]

its been a pleasure....[/QUOTE]

Wish we could say the same.

#22 John Bonnes

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:01 AM

I think if the Twins were interested in bringing back Matt Capps, they wouldn't have paid him $250,000 to go away.

#23 TRex

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:25 AM

So what you are saying, John, is that you think the Twins will be unable to sign Capps for less than $5.75 million (his $6 million option minus the buyout)? Otherwise, buying out his option has nothing to do with whether you want him back or not.

#24 johnnydakota

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

[quote name='righty8383'][QUOTE=johnnydakota;60611[/QUOTE]
harmon would be benched for not going the other way [/QUOTE]

You had some good points going until this part. Please tell me you were grossly exaggerating just to make a point.[/QUOTE]

yes i was pushing the truth , but look at the way he manages, would cal ripkens have been the new iron man?
would ken griffey jr. made his major leaque debute before the age of 25?

on another note ....r i p pascual perez , may god bless and keep your family safe

god bless america go twins

#25 righty8383

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:51 AM

No, Cal Ripken would not have been the iron man. But to say Griffey would not have made his debut before 25 is preposterous. Would he have debuted at 19? Maybe not, but like Mauer, he would have been up before he could legally drink.

#26 Nick Nelson

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

I think if the Twins were interested in bringing back Matt Capps, they wouldn't have paid him $250,000 to go away.


I fail to see how that's relevant. There was no way they were going to pick up the option so buying it out was a necessity regardless of their interest. This wouldn't be the first time a team bought out a player's option and then re-signed him to a more reasonable deal – just look at Jake Peavy.

#27 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:30 PM


3) It would be an unmitigated PR disaster. Capps is the poster child for all of the poor decisions made in recent years by the Twins. Bringing him back would be a reminder of the loss of Ramos, the draft pick, and $13 mil for 12 blown saves.

This shouldn't be a consideration, in my opinion. The Twins shouldn't let public perception of a potential move dictate whether they do it or not. If it's a good baseball decision, you make it happen. Certainly they should move on if he's looking for anything more than a couple million, but I'm not sure he'll be able to do so. He ranks pretty low on the list of free agent relievers and the Twins won't be all over him early driving up the price again.

Also, saying a "middle-handed reliever is not needed right now" is awfully cavalier based on out-of-nowhere performances from a couple injury-prone guys in their late 20s. I like Burton and Fien as much as the next guy but it doesn't hurt to hedge your bets a little bit.


Like it or not, PR is always a consideration. Are you telling me the Joe Mauer contract had nothing to do with PR? Signing Capps at this point is a lose-lose situation:
Capps pitches poorly and the FO will get hammered by fans and the press, it will be considered another terrible move in a list of recent questionable decisions.
Capps pitches well and everybody will be waiting for the shoe to drop. He could be perfect the entire year, and the fans would still be questioning. There is no reason to have this distraction on the team.

And no, a right-handed middle reliever is not needed right now. We have Swarzak to fill that roll just fine. Could we use a reliever that we could trust in a high leverage situation? Yep. Would you put Capps in a high leverage situation? Nope. Not cavalier, just common sense. If the team does need somebody for that spot, guys like that are a dime a dozen without Capps baggage.