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Front Page: Wish List: Circa 2012 and 2020 (Kevin Gausman)

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#21 Seth Stohs

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:39 AM

 

Know little about him, Seth.But will go with your recommendation and get on board.Right now that would be as one of three starters.You put him between Berrios and Odorizzi.Of that pair, who do you consider #1?Personally, could see arguments to go with either as #1.

 

And a question, Seth.Do you think it is possible the FO decides to go into spring training with the #5 spot open?Let the four rookies from last year and a couple reclamation projects (or AAAA) battle it out?That would mean they only need to fill two more spots.

 

I would feel comfortable with having one spot open for Dobnak, Graterol, Thorpe, Smeltzer to compete for. That said, for the Twins, it may (or may not?) be better to have those guys as the 6-9 starters rather than 5-8. 

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#22 Seth Stohs

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:47 AM

 

Owners have already suppressed free agency costs. I guess the next logical step for them is suppressing arbitration costs so they can pocket MOAR money. 

 

Would the decision with Gausman change at all if he was projected to receive $8 million instead of $10 million? Or $6 million instead of $10 million? We'll never know, but I'm willing to guess the additional $2-3 million dollars wasn't the primary reason he was non-tendered. 

 

I mean, would the Twins have offered CJ Cron arbitration if he had been projected to sign for $6 million instead of $7.5 million... or $5.5 million... Of did they just decide to go in a different direction? The injury is probably some concern, but he should be fine before spring training. Ultimately, they chose to go in a different direction. 

 

There are a lot of factors. The Reds projected rotation looks like Sonny Gray, Trevor Bauer, Luis Castillo, Anthony DeSclafini and Tyler Mahle. Three of them are still in or under arbitration. And they are one of the finalists for Zach Wheeler. 

 

I won't pretend to have followed Gausman in 2019. Maybe there are some underlying concerns. Maybe his lack of spin rate is an absolute No. Maybe there are other injury concerns that teams may have. If so, yeah, find another name. 

 

But a guy like Gausman, who frankly did as much in 2016-2018 as Wheeler and is a year younger but he's coming off a rough season, could be had and it doesn't stop them from going after a bigger dollar free agent, or trading for an impact starter too. 

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#23 rdehring

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:47 AM

 

I would feel comfortable with having one spot open for Dobnak, Graterol, Thorpe, Smeltzer to compete for. That said, for the Twins, it may (or may not?) be better to have those guys as the 6-9 starters rather than 5-8. 

If they would do that, Seth, it sure would be a fun spring training.Should they sign Pineda, who I think would be a good signing, one of the four would also get those four or five starts before he is released from MLB prison.


#24 Dantes929

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 11:25 AM

 

 Enough of the Pelfrey's ,Perez's and Correia's. Enough.

And the Blyleven's, Morris's Odorizzi's , Lynn's, Pineda's?Some pan out, some don't. Correia's ERA with the Twins would have put him solidly in the #4 spot in 2019. Those guys have value also. If I had to bet I would say Gausman would give us better than what Gibson gave us last year.Either of Dobnak and Graterol and probably Thorpe or Smeltzer would give us better than what Perez gave us and possibly a lot more. I have no problem handing over at least one spot to the young guys. Where do people think good starters come from if not the minor leagues? Of course they don't always pan out but Dobnak pitched 135 innings in the minors last year with a 2.07 ERA and then did even better with the Twins in 28 innings. What more can you ask for in an audition?Graterol was equally dominant.I promise you that if this board existed in late 1990 fans would be saying Tapani is an ok middle rotation guy, Morris is washed up, Erickson only has 113 major league innings and should only be considered as extra depth in case of injuries to proven pitchers and Anderson and West would never be on the rosters of a seriously contending team.Sign a couple of guys like Gausman that have apparent upside,go hard after at least one of Pineda,Ryu, Bumgartner or Wheeler (in that order in my opinion) and rely on guys stepping up and thriving.

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#25 SpicyGarvSauce

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 11:26 AM

This would be your typical Minnesota Twins move - take someone off the scrap heap, who just got non-tendered by the CINCINNATI REDS, and make them your highlight of the winter thus far. Seriously, how can you people get behind ideas like this after watching the Twins's starting pitching take an absolute dump in the ALDS this past season?

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#26 Seth Stohs

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:10 PM

 

This would be your typical Minnesota Twins move - take someone off the scrap heap, who just got non-tendered by the CINCINNATI REDS, and make them your highlight of the winter thus far. Seriously, how can you people get behind ideas like this after watching the Twins's starting pitching take an absolute dump in the ALDS this past season?

 

See previous comments to see the projected Reds rotation in 2020... And again, this is a "typical" every team move because all teams are looking for the guy coming off a bad year with good stuff and previous success to hope to bring them back to solid or better. These types of moves are smart for every organization, including the big spenders and the mid-markets. Part of that is because it doesn't stop them from going after the high price tag guys too. 

 

Who were the 4/5/6 starters for the. The Nationals won the World Series with Joe Ross making a Game 6 start. The Twins won one with Les Straker. The Astros got a terrific start from Urquidy. Back ends of rotations come from all over. The difference is that Gausman has enough track record of success (while playing for the Orioles in the AL East and his first half-season with Atlanta in a playoff run. He had a bad year. Doesn't mean he'll be great in 2020. Doesn't mean he'll even be good in 2020. He might be. No guarantee, but all teams sign guys like this and see. 

 

 

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#27 Brandon

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:24 PM

I think if the Twins can go sign Pineda to be a 4th starter in the 2 year 22-24 million.I would be fine with the Twins signing Gausman to a Martin Perez style contract of a 1 year with option contract.That would still leave us plenty of money to sign a starting pitcher like Bumgarner, Wheeler, or Ryu to a contract.  

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#28 gman

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:35 PM

I thought the same thing about comparing him to Wheeler the previous 3 years. Also, Wheeler has a history of arm problems. I am not saying Glausman is better but I could see him fitting him at #4.


#29 JLease

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 01:33 PM

 

I think if the Twins can go sign Pineda to be a 4th starter in the 2 year 22-24 million.I would be fine with the Twins signing Gausman to a Martin Perez style contract of a 1 year with option contract.That would still leave us plenty of money to sign a starting pitcher like Bumgarner, Wheeler, or Ryu to a contract.  

 

I would hope Pineda would cost less than that, frankly. He's going to miss another chunk of time next season with the suspension and has never thrown 180 innings in his career. In 9 years he's missed 3 entire seasons and significant time in 2 more because of injury. I'm not opposed to bringing him back, but he's also a case of 1 year with a team option making the most sense ($8M pro-rated for the suspension in year 1 with a team option for $10M in year 2).

 

But all of this is predicated on the Twins landing a serious top-end starter whether it's Wheeler, Ryu, Bumgarner, Strasburg, or Cole in FA or arranging a trade. Running back the ype of rotation we had last season lifts the floor and helps you compete in the regular season, but top-end talent is needed for the post.

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#30 nicksaviking

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 01:46 PM

I would really like Gausman, but only for the pen, he doesn't have any offspeed pitch.

 

I don't like his FB/splitter combo but it could work in relief. I think if he went to the pen full time, going back to the slider instead of the splitter could make him lights out.


#31 DocBauer

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 04:18 PM

Keuchel and Pineda, unless you like Keuchel better than Pineda. After that, my preference is to leave the 5th spot open for the young guys to fight for and roll through as necessary, at some point, they have to be given opportunity.

However, depth and competition are good things to have. Opportunity can knock at diffedent times and come in different variations. And sometimes bounce back fliers turn out quite well.

Not particularly a fan of Gausmanm but not a hater either. If he, or one of the other similar options available, can be brought in for only $4-5M, preferably with some sort of club option in case you guess right, I don't have a problem with it and can definitely get on board.
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#32 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 04:27 PM

I'd try him in the bullpen, but not as a starter at this point. 

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#33 mikelink45

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:15 PM

Fascinating to hear the arguments.I am just the basic - sign all possible arms - guy.Then at the end of ST put the best arms in the rotation (and now games with the call up time).Win!Pitch well, let our bats hit like they can, and get to the next round. 


#34 sweetmusicviola16

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:19 PM

 

Can't they do both? The beauty of a bounce-back guy like Gausman is that he has no impact on their efforts toward Wheeler, Ryu or Bumgarner. 

Yes they can do both. The problem is they haven't been. We needed pitching last season, we got Perez the bounce back candidate. We are in a bad spot of only having 2 SP's now b/c the FO has put us in this situation. Signing bounce back guys is fine, after you have signed the sure things.

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#35 DocBauer

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 06:17 PM

What about Taijuan Walker?
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#36 sweetmusicviola16

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:13 PM

 

Can't they do both? The beauty of a bounce-back guy like Gausman is that he has no impact on their efforts toward Wheeler, Ryu or Bumgarner. 

Problem too when you sign a guy like Gausman/Perez to a deal like you propose he becomes a guy that is going to make the team instead of a fringe candidate. So we're left with relying on them. I'm for signing bounce back guys, like Anibal Sanchez was. But when a guy is signed for 6 mil inspite of how bad he was he's making the team and we are stuck with him no matter how bad he is and the fallback becomes a AAA player. 

 

If we're not going to bring in front end guys with this team and the needs this team has then when are we? The answer would be, never.


#37 bobs

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 09:51 AM

Thanks Seth.It's articles like this that keep me coming back to Twins Daily.We're all Twins fans on here, so let's be honest with ourselves...people need to get off the Cole/Strasburg train.They simply will not come here and it has nothing do with "Cheap Pohlads".I've always been a huge MadBum fan...ask my sons.That said, I'm always leery of guys coming from NL to AL.Plus, he'll have several suitors and I doubt he comes to Minnesota.Same with Ryu.  

I think a more realistic rotation for this club entering 2020, and one that would immediately make the Twins the favorite in the Central, would be Berrios, Boyd (trade), Odorizzi, Gausman (I for one like Seth's idea of the team option), Pineda.


#38 Seth Stohs

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 04:48 PM

Gausman has signed with the Giants... I'm curious how much he got. 


#39 Seth Stohs

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 04:52 PM

$9 million with up to a million in incentives. 

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#40 Badsmerf

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:07 PM

Gausman has signed with the Giants... I'm curious how much he got.


Should have signed him yesterday. No brainer imo. Everyone wants Cole (me included), but look at what happened to guys like Arrieta. Find someone with stuff, take them to the next level. This could be the missed opportunity of the off-season we all complain about in a year.
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