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#61 AZTwin

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:13 PM

 

Why would Oakland do this? Chapmann costs less than Buxton, and has an extra year of control. He's never been hurt, and he's better than Buxton.

 

Buxton, Lewis, and the SP in the minors the As most want....that's what it would cost.

 

It's almost like people are trying to destroy the core of the team.  Why on earth would you ever consider that type of an offer?  Aren't you trying to compete for the playoffs and would be giving away key contributors, all three of which project to be more talented than Chapman? I mean if we offered Buxton for him, I would want their top 2 prospects to even start considering it.


#62 h2oface

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:16 PM

Forget Chapman. $ign Rendon.

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#63 AZTwin

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:19 PM

 

Forget Chapman. $ign Rendon.

 

Agreed.  Rendon is a significant upgrade from Chapman.  


#64 Mike Sixel

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:31 PM

 

It's almost like people are trying to destroy the core of the team.  Why on earth would you ever consider that type of an offer?  Aren't you trying to compete for the playoffs and would be giving away key contributors, all three of which project to be more talented than Chapman? I mean if we offered Buxton for him, I would want their top 2 prospects to even start considering it.

 

I wouldn't....I said that is what it would cost.....

 

You can't be serious. Chapmann is cheaper than Buxton, healthier, and better. And has another year of control.....

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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#65 AZTwin

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:51 PM

I wouldn't....I said that is what it would cost.....

You can't be serious. Chapmann is cheaper than Buxton, healthier, and better. And has another year of control.....


Healthier maybe. You can’t promise that going forward. Buxton is elite though in center and his offense showed real promise. His OPS is already pretty close to Chapman. He has far more speed on the base paths and create far more. He is also trending up. Chapman seems like a regression candidate

#66 sweetmusicviola16

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:09 PM

When Buxton does leave the Twins, whether as an FA or by trade, Oakland is where I'd like to see him land. It would remind me of one of my all-time favorites. Rickey Henderson. Too bad Buxton can't stay on the field. He'd maybe be as great as Rickey was.


#67 RaoulDuke

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:22 PM

Chapman is awesome but I would use all trade capital to try and get front line pitching. Sign Donaldson or open the vault and get Rendon to play 3rd but trade for pitching.

Outfield is a strength to trade from but I hate to sell low on Buck, I could accept it for pitching though.
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#68 Shaitan

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:32 PM

 

The jury must still be out or Lewis wouldn't have spent so much time in Arizona playing CF & 3B. 

I think the jury is still out on any player in A-ball, by definition.

 

Heck, the jury is still out on Polanco, who started the All-Star game at SS.

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#69 Homer Hanky

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:05 PM

 

Why would Oakland do this? Chapmann costs less than Buxton, and has an extra year of control. He's never been hurt, and he's better than Buxton.

 

Buxton, Lewis, and the SP in the minors the As most want....that's what it would cost.

 

I can get on board with that. Good thot! 


#70 darin617

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:27 PM

 

Not in1.5 million years. If you want to improve infield defense get a real SS and let Polanco play second

 

I have said this countless times. Polanco needs to find a new position.

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#71 AZTwin

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:37 PM

I just watched Chapman’s highlights to see if there was something I was missing and I really don’t see what you guys all see. A lot of his homeruns are going to turn into pop outs. Nothing really exciting with the bat. Defense is good but there’s been plenty of good defensive 3B. Range isn’t the best and it’s not going to get any better. I would say that former Athletic 3B, Eric Chavez was quite significantly better than what Chapman is today and based on the type of posts here you would think the opposite. It’s bizarre

#72 Tomj14

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:45 PM

 

Pete Alonso is easily better than Chapman and its not even close.  He had a .941 OPS in his rookie year and simply passed the eye test.  Tatis was also better.  .969 OPS and high batting average as a 20 year old! I'll give you Robles, but he still projects to be better than Chapman and the nationals would never take that trade.  You can't just consider past stats but also you need to look at the scouting report of how they will do going forward.  Chapman certainly seems above average but I wouldn't call him a star.

I was trying to say it would be bold to say Kirilloff or any other Twins prospects will have a rookie year compared to those three, not how good they could become, and none of those three were as good as Chapman last year overall which I don't believe is really up for debate.Based on fan graphs and Baseball American Chapman was one of the best 8-11 non-pitchers in all of baseball.


#73 Aerodeliria

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 01:19 AM

Yeah, unfortunately, I don't see this scenario playing out. The A's would scoff at getting Buxton for Chapman. Buxton cannot stay healthy long enough to complete the trade. He'd probably jam his finger while trying to sign the contract. There is no upside for the A's in such a trade.

 

Four years of control would cost the Twins plenty. I would say two prospects of high quality and Rosario, or they would hang up the phone.


#74 Aerodeliria

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 01:31 AM

 

Why would Oakland do this? Chapmann costs less than Buxton, and has an extra year of control. He's never been hurt, and he's better than Buxton.

 

Buxton, Lewis, and the SP in the minors the As most want....that's what it would cost.

At the very least...and I am not sure they want Buxton at all.


#75 Tomj14

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:23 AM

 

Pete Alonso is easily better than Chapman and its not even close. 

that is factually incorrect. Chapman has won the Platinum Glove Award two years running. Alonso had a better year offensively but was below average fielder at 1st base and saying somebody is better without taking into consideration the half of the game isn't they way to judge players. They were both awesome and I would take either on the Twins.


#76 AZTwin

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:40 AM

that is factually incorrect. Chapman has won the Platinum Glove Award two years running. Alonso had a better year offensively but was below average fielder at 1st base and saying somebody is better without taking into consideration the half of the game isn't they way to judge players. They were both awesome and I would take either on the Twins.


It wasn’t even close offensively and more importantly projecting for the future. Mets would laugh at the A’s if offered Chapman for Alonso. This reminds me of Mientkiewicz blocking Morneau and people saying you couldn’t discount defense. While 3B is mildly more important than 1B, some of the factors are the same. Chapman is limited by some physical characteristics that won’t change over time. With age his range will decline. And unlike 1B it’s not exactly like you are putting scrubs out there as the replacement defense. It’s not nearly as important as say CF defensively, which Buxton impacts more as defensive CF than Chapman does at 3B. For Alonso, it is hard to replicate that type of offense.

#77 AZTwin

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:48 AM

And I keep going back to this example. It seems like the guys that just started following baseball this year are all about Chapman, but he isn’t nearly as good defensively or offensively as what Eric Chavez was back in the day. We’re talking about perspective. I would liken him more of a Corey Koskie type value player. Hell I think Koskie would be better than Chapman if he played with these baseballs.

Also 3B is not a position players age gracefully. Usually if a 3B is playing defense great late in their career it’s because they came from SS which is a more athletic position

#78 Tomj14

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:14 AM

 

And I keep going back to this example. It seems like the guys that just started following baseball this year are all about Chapman, but he isn’t nearly as good defensively or offensively as what Eric Chavez was back in the day. We’re talking about perspective. I would liken him more of a Corey Koskie type value player. Hell I think Koskie would be better than Chapman if he played with these baseballs.

Also 3B is not a position players age gracefully. Usually if a 3B is playing defense great late in their career it’s because they came from SS which is a more athletic position

Just because you say something doesn't make them true. Chavez never came close to a dWAR that Chapman has put up and once in his whole career had an oWAR of 4.8, which Chapman had this year and was 5.0 last year. and Koskie had one year in his career comparable to Chapman in 2001.

I doubt the Mets would laugh at a straight up trade, they probably won't do it just based on that Alonso is 2 years younger.

But I will be done with this and concede you feeling are more valuable than actual stats.

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#79 nicksaviking

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:29 AM

 

It wasn’t even close offensively and more importantly projecting for the future. Mets would laugh at the A’s if offered Chapman for Alonso. This reminds me of Mientkiewicz blocking Morneau and people saying you couldn’t discount defense. While 3B is mildly more important than 1B, some of the factors are the same. Chapman is limited by some physical characteristics that won’t change over time. With age his range will decline. And unlike 1B it’s not exactly like you are putting scrubs out there as the replacement defense. It’s not nearly as important as say CF defensively, which Buxton impacts more as defensive CF than Chapman does at 3B. For Alonso, it is hard to replicate that type of offense.

 

I don't get why you keep bringing up Alonso. Is someone suggesting the Twins have a player equivalent to Alonso who they should trade for Chapman? I don't see anyone suggesting they do or they should.

 

Chapman is 26, has a really good bat despite playing in a pitchers ballpark, great defense and draws a ton of walks. That ability to draw walks is a big safety net to help prevent him from going belly-up; he'll get on base a lot which means he likely won't slump. It's why Rosario, Schoop and Cron can go ice cold, while Polanco, Kepler and Cruz can ride out a hitless streak and still not kill the lineup.

 

With his excellent on base skills, well above average power and elite defense, he looks like Scott Rolen, who was rarely a sexy player but ended up one of the best 3B of all time without anyone really talking about it.

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#80 AZTwin

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:06 PM

Just because you say something doesn't make them true. Chavez never came close to a dWAR that Chapman has put up and once in his whole career had an oWAR of 4.8, which Chapman had this year and was 5.0 last year. and Koskie had one year in his career comparable to Chapman in 2001.
I doubt the Mets would laugh at a straight up trade, they probably won't do it just based on that Alonso is 2 years younger.
But I will be done with this and concede you feeling are more valuable than actual stats.


Don’t care for WAR. Chavez was a better defender with more range and had a better bat/stats. He had a little more range at 3B. Also wasn’t aided by the juiced ball. Eric Chavez was much better and it’s not even close. Matt Chapman will fall off in a couple years defensively and he’s already not a superstar offensively. If you don’t trust your eyes, or even career trends at positions or any other historical data, at least look at the stats and you will see that Eric Chavez was a much better player