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Front Page: What the Early Twins Offseason Rumblings Tell Us

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#21 Wax off

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:34 AM

Still hoping for a blockbuster trade out of left field that is better than any of our dreams. I still believe It’s the best route for several years of sustainable success.


I hope they fill the rotation with free agents first, see how that works. Maybe it goes well, if it doesn't then trade. The advantage of waiting until the regular season is you get to see how well pitchers are performing during the season and target guys who are playing at a high level at the time of the trade.

#22 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:10 AM

Pineda? Downside is the 60 game suspension but for the most part losing Pineda and gaining Wheeler would be a zero sum to me.


Except zero sum isn't better. And, Pineda is highly rated, not someone no one had thought of and no one is interested in. The post I responded to said find someone better, that no one is interested in....
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#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:13 AM

In an environment where Kyle Gibson gets $30 Million over 3 years, probably this is a year to stay out of the bidding wars on the top and 2nd tier free agents. Re-sign Pineda, and go with Odorizzi and Berríos as the top 3. Then let the rest of the Twins roster fight for the last two spots Graterol, Dobnak, Thorpe, Romero, Smeltzer and others can try to prove themselves. Or the Twins should look to make a trade for x starter. Otherwise, the Twins pay big bucks for Wheeler based on potential more than past performance, or pay big bucks for aging and likely declining pitchers like Ryu and Mad-Bum.


They have fifty to seventy million in payroll space. Why not sign good players? You think a contending team should go into the year with two rookie pitchers, and sign a guy that is going to miss one fourth of his starts, so you need another rookie for those starts?
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#24 Tomj14

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:21 AM

 

They have fifty to seventy million in payroll space. Why not sign good players? You think a contending team should go into the year with two rookie pitchers, and sign a guy that is going to miss one fourth of his starts, so you need another rookie for those starts?

Financial Flexibility is the key for winning teams, having the ability to sign or trade for high price players but choosing not to is more important than not being able to sign or trade for those players because you are hamstrung by payroll. </s>

 

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#25 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:25 AM

Financial Flexibility is the key for winning teams, having the ability to sign or trade for high price players but choosing not to is more important than not being able to sign or trade for those players because you are hamstrung by payroll. </s>


That sarcasm part almost slipped by me.....
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#26 DocBauer

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:28 AM

1] A solid argument could be made for Ryu and Bumgarner being equal to or better as a signing than Wheeler. But what you banking/projecting on Wheeler is 30yo come May with legit mods 90's velocity combined with normal experience and 2 yrs removed from surgery. A change of scenery with a new staff and you could easily be looking at the best 3yrs or so of his career.

Yes $20-22M ish is too much. But that's probably what it is going to take. As of now, not only can you afford it without compromising the roster, but he would be the only large and long term deal on the books.

2] As to Castro, his coming back makes too much sense for both parties. You can say the Twins may not be overly anxious to bring him back, and that's fair. But he hasn't signed anywhere else yet, and we've seen a couple surprising signings at the catcher position so far. To this point, I don't think I've ever heard rumors of anyone else interested.

3] Not sure about Sano to 1B yet. But the FO would be foolish not to consider all avenues to improve the team. I don't feel they are pushing that move yet. But if you aren't sold on Cron being 100% at this time, you obviously look at all contingencies at your disposal.

4] Bullpen wise, they really need a LH without moving Smeltzer or Thorpe. They need to stay starting for now. But if you look at what's available, sure seems like low 1yr deal options and fliers. But then again, that has proven to work many times, while tossing money at FA RP in recent years hasn't usually worked very well.

That being said, I think Romo comes back on a 1yr $3M deal.
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#27 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:31 AM

Thorpe should move to the pen now, and not spend another year as a starter. Just as Rogers should have moved a year earlier.

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#28 DocBauer

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:40 AM

Pineda? Downside is the 60 game suspension but for the most part losing Pineda and gaining Wheeler would be a zero sum to me.


I am all about re-signing Pineda. When you look at stuff, age, what he did last year, where do you find a better value or fit?

His suspension only carries about 30 more days. As I understand it, he can fully participate in ST and gets a couple weeks to ramp up in the minors before he is activated. Not sure if he can remain at the Ft Myers complex during the suspension or is forced to work out on his own.

I don't like to have to cover that first 30+ days, but over the course of the entire season, again, he's a perfect fit.
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#29 Elliot

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:54 AM

Suggesting that Sano move across the diamond from third to first is not a criticism.Many players outgrow the left side of the infield and go on to be very effective defensive players.Albert Pujols moved from third early in his career and became a multi gold glove first baseman.Miguel Cabrera made a similar move and had been an average to better than average defensive first baseman early in his career; although age has caught up to him some now. Although both are now DH’s late in their careers, that move was not made in their mid-twenties.
Sano was signed as a SS, but that was close to 100 lbs ago.It does however indicate that there is a certain level of athleticism present.The key is to make any change early enough in the offseason for him to be comfortable by opening day.That was the real mistake in the attempted move to right field; a change initiated in spring training.Although I am not suggesting a move to the outfield, I do believe that Sano has the skills that would allow him to be at least an average defensive right fielder; highlighted by an impressive arm.Again, this would assume adequate time for training and adjustment.
First base should be a much smoother transition, especially if given the time to adequately learn and become comfortable. In the overall “defensive scheme”, Sano as an average first baseman is far more valuable than Sano as a below average third baseman.That being said, I do believe that he has the potential to be above average defensively at first base.

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#30 USAFChief

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:14 AM

 

In an environment where Kyle Gibson gets $30 Million over 3 years, probably this is a year to stay out of the bidding wars on the top and 2nd tier free agents. Re-sign Pineda, and go with Odorizzi and Berríos as the top 3. Then let the rest of the Twins roster fight for the last two spots Graterol, Dobnak, Thorpe, Romero, Smeltzer and others can try to prove themselves. Or the Twins should look to make a trade for x starter. Otherwise, the Twins pay big bucks for Wheeler based on potential more than past performance, or pay big bucks for aging and likely declining pitchers like Ryu and Mad-Bum.

Then the Twins will never be in on top and 2nd tier free agents. The "environment" hasn't changed in years, and I strongly doubt it will change any time soon.

 

FA pitching costs a lot of money. Either pay it, or don't expect to sign FA pitching, ever.

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#31 SQUIRREL

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:21 AM

 

Then the Twins will never be in on top and 2nd tier free agents. The "environment" hasn't changed in years, and I strongly doubt it will change any time soon.

 

FA pitching costs a lot of money. Either pay it, or don't expect to sign FA pitching, ever.

And, imo, if you are going to pay, then go big and sign one of the top 2 ... 

 

It's my wish for Santa this year.

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#32 USAFChief

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:22 AM

 

And, imo, if you are going to pay, then go big and sign one of the top 2 ... 

 

It's my wish for Santa this year.

Santa hasn't pitched well for years. I'd rather have Wheeler.

 

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#33 SQUIRREL

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:23 AM

 

Santa hasn't pitched well for years. I'd rather have Wheeler.

But Santa has magic ;)

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#34 bustedstuff88

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:01 PM

In an environment where Kyle Gibson gets $30 Million over 3 years, probably this is a year to stay out of the bidding wars on the top and 2nd tier free agents. Re-sign Pineda, and go with Odorizzi and Berríos as the top 3. Then let the rest of the Twins roster fight for the last two spots Graterol, Dobnak, Thorpe, Romero, Smeltzer and others can try to prove themselves. Or the Twins should look to make a trade for x starter. Otherwise, the Twins pay big bucks for Wheeler based on potential more than past performance, or pay big bucks for aging and likely declining pitchers like Ryu and Mad-Bum.


So your plan then is to essentially trot out the same rotation in 20 as you did in 19 less Gibson?
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#35 sweetmusicviola16

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:21 PM

 

In an environment where Kyle Gibson gets $30 Million over 3 years, probably this is a year to stay out of the bidding wars on the top and 2nd tier free agents. Re-sign Pineda, and go with Odorizzi and Berríos as the top 3. Then let the rest of the Twins roster fight for the last two spots Graterol, Dobnak, Thorpe, Romero, Smeltzer and others can try to prove themselves. Or the Twins should look to make a trade for x starter. Otherwise, the Twins pay big bucks for Wheeler based on potential more than past performance, or pay big bucks for aging and likely declining pitchers like Ryu and Mad-Bum.

The FA environment is always the same. If not now at this point where our need is the greatest its ever been, then when?

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#36 Dantes929

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:23 PM

 

Except zero sum isn't better. And, Pineda is highly rated, not someone no one had thought of and no one is interested in. The post I responded to said find someone better, that no one is interested in....

I didn't think you were trying to be that literal about it.I go to mlb.com and there is zero buzz about Pineda and a lot about Wheeler.Would not surprise me to see Pineda go for less than half of what Wheeler gets and I think I would rather have Pineda.That puts him in the better camp.But ok, zero interest that is better than Wheeler?Graterol or even Dobnak might end up better but can't say no one has interest in them. You win. 

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#37 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:27 PM

As much as I’m interested in Wheeler’s untapped potential, I feel like we’d be taking the same risk Boston took when signing Eovaldi; only a much bigger. Again, I’m not opposed to signing Wheeler, but I’d feel much more comfortable in signing a trio of Pineda, Keuchel, and Porcello to short term deals instead.

#38 In My La-Z-boy

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:27 PM

We'll know a little more tonight after the Cron decision. Rumors has the Brewers shopping Hader. 4 years of control, and a $4.6m number next year. Wolfson says we are talking to Boras about Ryu. With everyone apparently wanting Wheeler I am skeptical we offer the most? Maybe we see a blockbuster trade for a #1 starter? Hoping if we don't pony up for Wheeler, that we make a trade. Hate to lose prospects, but this is the off season to go for it. One way or the other, I am hopeful the off season rumblings this winter include 2 stud starters please to go along with resigning Pineda.

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#39 Mike Sixel

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:46 PM

I'm perusing the starting pitchers that were good last year....there aren't a lot on non-playoff teams. Especially if you eliminate any with only a year or two in the majors. Other than the Marlins pitcher last year, it's hard to think of starters traded with more than 2-3 years of control left. I think trading is going to be difficult, and pricey.

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#40 nick_hansen

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:10 PM

 

As much as I’m interested in Wheeler’s untapped potential, I feel like we’d be taking the same risk Boston took when signing Eovaldi; only a much bigger. Again, I’m not opposed to signing Wheeler, but I’d feel much more comfortable in signing a trio of Pineda, Keuchel, and Porcello to short term deals instead.

I think it's pretty optimistic that we would sign three FAs. In my mind, including resigning Pineda, it would be two at most.

Bringing back Pineda is a solid move. Keuchel is a tough one because he is now 32 and it will likely take a 3-4 yr deal to get it done. Porcello is really only a back-end innings eater at this point.

I just don't see why we don't take a chance and see if we can turn Wheeler into a top-of-the-rotation starter. The tools are all there. For me, if they sign Wheeler and resign Pineda, they are looking pretty decent for next year. Also trading for a SP like Jon Gray wouldn't be a bad idea either and could put them over the top. 

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