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Front Page: Offseason Blueprint: Hooking a Big Fish

minnesota twins anthony rendon zack wheeler sergio romo jon gray
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#41 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:20 AM

 

I'll accept that many players will take the highest dollar amount, if you accept that not every player is the staunch capitalist that you make them out to be.

 

We don't know the motivations of every player and we never will, but we do know that they're all different humans and humans don't all operate the same way.

 

You are right when it comes to close dollars I'm sure. When its another year on a contract though? Or another 10-15 million over another bid? Most times they would take the better deal. 

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#42 Major League Ready

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:43 AM

 

The post I responded to stated one year deals are exactly what the TWins should be doing....not one, one year deal......

 

I have no issue with one, one year deal. I have issues with multiple one year deals. Nothing more or less.

 

Sorry, I missed that part. Just heard on MLB radio Odorizzi is strongly considering taking the QO so we might have a SP on a 1 year deal by the end of the day.

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#43 nicksaviking

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:53 AM

 

Sorry, I missed that part. Just heard on MLB radio Odorizzi is strongly considering taking the QO so we might have a SP on a 1 year deal by the end of the day.

 

If Odorizzi does accept the QO, and if the rumors that his agent had already met with Toronto are true (they may not have been, his agent also represents Randall Grichuck), then it probably means Odorizzi already had a feel that at best Toronto's hypothetical offer would be only a minimal improvement to the QO salary.

 

If so, that probably is a pretty good indicator that salaries, particularly to pitchers, are going to be lower than expected once again this offseason. Which probably means the Twins can be in play for anyone with mutual interest, but also probably means there won't be much free agent action until 2020.

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#44 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 12:22 PM

 

Sorry, I missed that part. Just heard on MLB radio Odorizzi is strongly considering taking the QO so we might have a SP on a 1 year deal by the end of the day.

 

This does create an interesting dilemna for the FO. If they can't get him to negotiate a longer deal, do they sign another guy to a one year deal? If so, that sets up next off season to be potentially (likely) needing to add 1-2 new SPs again (and that's assuming that 1-2 of their minor league guys step up).

 

I hope that "forces" them to be more active for the first or second tier types....

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#45 Major League Ready

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 02:46 PM

 

This does create an interesting dilemna for the FO. If they can't get him to negotiate a longer deal, do they sign another guy to a one year deal? If so, that sets up next off season to be potentially (likely) needing to add 1-2 new SPs again (and that's assuming that 1-2 of their minor league guys step up).

 

I hope that "forces" them to be more active for the first or second tier types....

 

I am thinking it makes them bold going after Wheeler / Bumgarner because it reduces risk. It doesmake signing both more financially viable. Obviously, it does not make it any easier to attract two top FA starting pitchers when so many team are pursuing SPs but I think it makes them a little bolder. 

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#46 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 03:54 PM

 

I am thinking it makes them bold going after Wheeler / Bumgarner because it reduces risk. It doesmake signing both more financially viable. Obviously, it does not make it any easier to attract two top FA starting pitchers when so many team are pursuing SPs but I think it makes them a little bolder. 

 

Over pay them. Get them in here. If those are the 2 your team/front office has determined will give you the best chance to win, go to them right away with a big number that fits within your budget and lets not let any of the big boys have their chance at them. 

 


#47 Major League Ready

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 04:47 PM

 

Over pay them. Get them in here. If those are the 2 your team/front office has determined will give you the best chance to win, go to them right away with a big number that fits within your budget and lets not let any of the big boys have their chance at them. 

 

It just does not generally work that way with the top guys, especially with so many teams (high revenue teams) looking for SPs. It does not matter what you offer, their agent is going to see if they can get more or get the same amount from a team they prefer. 

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#48 Weave

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:54 AM

I see you don't have Randy Dobnak in any part of your plan.  Granted I am biased, but I hope you are wrong.  


#49 ChiefsKid

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:37 PM

The post I responded to stated one year deals are exactly what the TWins should be doing....not one, one year deal......
 
I have no issue with one, one year deal. I have issues with multiple one year deals. Nothing more or less.


If it takes one year deals to get the best quality pitching, then do one year deals.

My concern is now *how* we get top level pitching here, but the simple fact that we do.

I feel like you expect the Twins to go out and sign 4 top level pitchers to market level contracts (or above). That's foolish. I don't care if they have 5 starters on 1 year deals every single year, so long as those 5 starters are higher end and better quality.

The reality of our situation is we need to be savvy and creative in acquiring pitching talent, because even though the FO is spouting fairytales about increased spending, we are never going to match payrolls with the Bostons, NYs and LAs. Do it in any way you can, especially if it costs lower than market value. The market the Twins will consistently be in includes the likes of Martin Perez, Kevin Correia, and Shelby Miller. We are begging for the second tier Free Agents, ferpetessake.

Mike Minor was an ace this past year. He would fit towards the top of the Twins rotation really nicely. A significant upgrade over Randy Dobnak, imo. This proverbial "window" typically lasts 4-ish years for mid-market teams (see Cleveland, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, etc.)

#50 Mike Sixel

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:50 PM

 

If it takes one year deals to get the best quality pitching, then do one year deals.

My concern is now *how* we get top level pitching here, but the simple fact that we do.

I feel like you expect the Twins to go out and sign 4 top level pitchers to market level contracts (or above). That's foolish. I don't care if they have 5 starters on 1 year deals every single year, so long as those 5 starters are higher end and better quality.

The reality of our situation is we need to be savvy and creative in acquiring pitching talent, because even though the FO is spouting fairytales about increased spending, we are never going to match payrolls with the Bostons, NYs and LAs. Do it in any way you can, especially if it costs lower than market value. The market the Twins will consistently be in includes the likes of Martin Perez, Kevin Correia, and Shelby Miller. We are begging for the second tier Free Agents, ferpetessake.

Mike Minor was an ace this past year. He would fit towards the top of the Twins rotation really nicely. A significant upgrade over Randy Dobnak, imo. This proverbial "window" typically lasts 4-ish years for mid-market teams (see Cleveland, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, etc.)

 

I've never once said they can get 4 good pitchers in 1 season. That's my entire point....you can't. Hence, you can fill your roster with 4 guys on one year deals (or in this case, deals that all expire the same year).

 

That is literally my point.

 

No one, not one person, has asked the TWins to spend as much as the Yankees or Red Sox. But, they have 40-55 million in budget room right now. They can afford 1 great pitcher on a multi year deal. Heck, they agree with me. They bid the 2nd most for Darvish two years ago.....

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#51 ChiefsKid

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 04:47 PM

I've never once said they can get 4 good pitchers in 1 season. That's my entire point....you can't. Hence, you can fill your roster with 4 guys on one year deals (or in this case, deals that all expire the same year).
 
That is literally my point.
 
No one, not one person, has asked the TWins to spend as much as the Yankees or Red Sox. But, they have 40-55 million in budget room right now. They can afford 1 great pitcher on a multi year deal. Heck, they agree with me. They bid the 2nd most for Darvish two years ago.....


I'm confused as to what your point is, though. You say you don't want multiple guys like Minor (simply because of an expiring contract) but then also say we only have enough money to afford one good pitcher. I'm saying if 5 guys like Mike Minor are available and affordable, go get them all.
If that leads to needing to replenish the pitching staff next year again, so be it. Actually, I'd honestly prefer more of that.

#52 Mike Sixel

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:34 PM

I'm confused as to what your point is, though. You say you don't want multiple guys like Minor (simply because of an expiring contract) but then also say we only have enough money to afford one good pitcher. I'm saying if 5 guys like Mike Minor are available and affordable, go get them all.
If that leads to needing to replenish the pitching staff next year again, so be it. Actually, I'd honestly prefer more of that.


Next year's free agent class is much worse.

My point is clear.... It is not likely a team can acquire four good starting pitchers in one off season. They can't afford to make the same mistake they did last year again, having one pitcher on the roster signed past this year.

The Twins can afford plenty of pitching, but that doesn't mean they can convince four good pitchers to come here.... It's not about money. It's about mutual desire. Free agency and trades are about two parties agreeing. It's hard to do that for four times in one year.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#53 ChiefsKid

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:59 AM

Next year's free agent class is much worse.
My point is clear.... It is not likely a team can acquire four good starting pitchers in one off season. They can't afford to make the same mistake they did last year again, having one pitcher on the roster signed past this year.
The Twins can afford plenty of pitching, but that doesn't mean they can convince four good pitchers to come here.... It's not about money. It's about mutual desire. Free agency and trades are about two parties agreeing. It's hard to do that for four times in one year.


Valid. 4 openings every year probably is a tough task.
I guess my point is the "window" usually only last 4-ish years. I'd love to believe the Twins will be ultra competitive for the next decade, but odds are, they won't. If it takes 1-year deals to get upper level pitching here while the window is open, I just wouldn't want to rule it out because it makes you work hard next offseason too.

"Mutual Desire" almost always starts with money, and you're going to have a hard time convincing me otherwise.

#54 John Buckeye

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 10:22 AM

This is the closest blueprint I've seen to my own. I'm definitely going to steal the Signing Gordon thing, as we will probably need that defensive help once Eddie is gone.Good article!




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