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Astros Being Investigated for Using Tech to Steal Pitching Signs

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#1 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:17 PM



I can no longer say I want the Twins to emulate the Astros. Bush league maneuver to use cameras in order to steal signs.
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#2 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:19 PM

Here's a video breakdown of how they conveyed the pitch to hitters. WARNING: There's swearing in the video.

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#3 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:26 PM

I really do like the blending of new school tech with old school garbage can banging communication. It's a truly great compromise to appease the purists who only like sign stealing via dodgy "fan" in the outfield with binoculars and a walkie-talkie.

 

But I hope the MLB takes away all their draft picks and caps their international free agent budget at $50.

 

I don't even care if the Astros are guilty, I hope they do it just because.

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#4 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:37 PM

Manfred has previously threatened to take away draft picks if organizations partake in shenanigans. I then think it's only fair that Houston is prohibited from making any offers to any free agents tied to draft pick compensation until this investigation clears up.

 

Which I then hope is approximately April.

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#5 birdwatcher

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:39 PM

shocker

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#6 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:41 PM

Makes me that much more happy that Washington won the WS this year.
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#7 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:56 PM

Apparently this process is based on another team's process....so they aren't alone.

 

That said, I hope they take away picks and whatever else.......

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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#8 Riverbrian

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:13 PM

Apparently this process is based on another team's process....so they aren't alone.

That said, I hope they take away picks and whatever else.......


Yeah I’m wondering if there is an iceberg under that tip.
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#9 Parker Hageman

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:18 PM

I liked the 1951 New York Giants' system better, to be honest. 

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#10 Blake

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:26 PM

Stealing signs is all well and good, but, still have to hit the ball.

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#11 h2oface

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:36 PM

Blasphemous to steal signs, or try to, but a great talent to steal the pitch and fool/cheat the umpire with pitch framing. One maybe gives the batter an advantage. The other cheats the actual outcome of the pitch.

 

OK to steal signs with no tech, but criminal to steal signs with tech. OK to figure out a tell, or how a pitcher tips his pitches, and then share that, but criminal to figure out a series of 10 hand signals with video.

 

Sometimes I just don't understand the outrage, or the distinctive difference, on what is a great talent to quantify, and what is "cheating". I hate pitch framing cheating the most, and it is still a thing, when it can easily be eliminated.

Edited by h2oface, 12 November 2019 - 04:42 PM.

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#12 ashbury

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:49 PM

Stealing signs is all well and good, but, still have to hit the ball.

Well, sure. But if major-league batters are allowed to sell out to the fastball, and can ignore being fooled with something offspeed, an awful lot of them turn into Babe Ruth.

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#13 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 05:16 PM

Here's a video breakdown of how they conveyed the pitch to hitters. WARNING: There's swearing in the video.

I believe it. I’m glad that Twitter guy did that work. Eventually I’d like to see more evidence and also something from the 2017 postseason.
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#14 Thrylos

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 05:30 PM

This is really entertaining; however until the MLB establishes rules(*) against stealing signs, no written rule was broken and no punishment should be doled out, other than unwritten rules one.

 

(*) There is a "directive" against stealing signs by electronic means.The Red Sox were found guilty of that and got a slap on the hand (fine of undisclosed amount) as a penalty.

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#15 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 05:46 PM

I always thought this was a possibility, I mean, the commentators are calling the pitches before they are thrown because they see the signs on the monitor.

 

Not sure how to constrain the ability to cheat on this. 

 

A guy could carry a silent buzzer in one pocket, just for the change-up. It could all be done remotely.

 

Houston, we got problems here.


#16 mickeymental

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:15 PM

crazy as hell.

 

years ago, in a competitive 28-and-over league, my team had a first-base coach with a knack for seeing the signs that opposing catchers put down. on days that it worked (some catchers held their legs closer together than others), he'd say our hitter's first name for fastball ("come on, johnny") and last name for offspeed ("you're due, johnson"). it often worked like a charm, gave us a tremendous advantage and really let you relax in the batter's box. no opponent ever caught on and, in my opinion, it was well within baseball's unwritten rules. 

 

but i believe that using a camera (or even binoculars) crosses a line. and in houston's case, it sounds like the yankees caught on -- and houston denied and changed the signal. which seems like VERY dirty pool.

 

One way to stop it might be to always give three sets of signs (like when a runner is on second base) and only the pitcher and defense know which signal is the real one.

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#17 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:50 PM

 

Blasphemous to steal signs, or try to, but a great talent to steal the pitch and fool/cheat the umpire with pitch framing. One maybe gives the batter an advantage. The other cheats the actual outcome of the pitch.

 

OK to steal signs with no tech, but criminal to steal signs with tech. OK to figure out a tell, or how a pitcher tips his pitches, and then share that, but criminal to figure out a series of 10 hand signals with video.

 

Sometimes I just don't understand the outrage, or the distinctive difference, on what is a great talent to quantify, and what is "cheating". I hate pitch framing cheating the most, and it is still a thing, when it can easily be eliminated.

 

Of course, pitch framing is just a fancy word for sets a good target and other things....and is about getting a strike called correctly more than getting a ball called a strike.....they aren't the same thing as stealing signs at all. It's part of the actual play, for example, among other differences.

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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#18 Hrbowski

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:50 PM

It has long been acknowledged in the industry that the majority of teams are doing this.

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#19 Blake

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:52 PM

 

Well, sure. But if major-league batters are allowed to sell out to the fastball, and can ignore being fooled with something offspeed, an awful lot of them turn into Babe Ruth.

It's all fun and games until the breaking stuff is called a strike. :)


#20 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 08:28 PM

 

Blasphemous to steal signs, or try to, but a great talent to steal the pitch and fool/cheat the umpire with pitch framing. One maybe gives the batter an advantage. The other cheats the actual outcome of the pitch.

 

OK to steal signs with no tech, but criminal to steal signs with tech. OK to figure out a tell, or how a pitcher tips his pitches, and then share that, but criminal to figure out a series of 10 hand signals with video.

 

 

Robo umps takes care of one of those problems.. and I'm in favor of that..

 

The other is players playing vs. someone helping them... pretty big difference in my opinion. 

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