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Front Page: 3 Creative Ways for Twins to Leverage Their Spending Flexibility

jose berrios madison bumgarner jorge polanco max kepler
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#21 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 06:48 PM

 

I really like opt-out contract idea. That's very interesting. 

Please tell me more about who can opt out...the player or the team? Who has the option to walk away from the contract? Is it unilateral with just one party?


#22 Twins33

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 07:16 PM

Please tell me more about who can opt out...the player or the team? Who has the option to walk away from the contract? Is it unilateral with just one party?

The player is the one who can opt out. Never the team.

#23 DocBauer

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 08:44 PM

I like the big buyout for a quality player from a team that needs to shed salary, gain prospects, etc. I just don't know that Price has enough left in the tank to be worth anything close to what he is due.

Great minds think alike, lol, as I suggested a front loaded contract on another thread. I am also very much on favor of front loaded extensions.

These are all great ideas as a way to maintain flexibility for the next few years. Something tells me they are smart enough to do these things.
"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

--Lou Brown


#24 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 09:06 PM

 

The player is the one who can opt out. Never the team.

What term would have been used if the Twins had chosen not to pay Cruz's option for 2020? I'm not arguing a point, I'm just trying to gets the term for when the team elects to sever a contract by not renewing the contract, or buys it out? Apparently, it would be incorrect for me to say that the team "opted out " of the contract in that scenario. 


#25 tvagle

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 09:22 PM

 

What term would have been used if the Twins had chosen not to pay Cruz's option for 2020? I'm not arguing a point, I'm just trying to gets the term for when the team elects to sever a contract by not renewing the contract, or buys it out? Apparently, it would be incorrect for me to say that the team "opted out " of the contract in that scenario. 

 

Player-Option - Player chooses to pick up the option in the contract or become a Free Agent (Opts-Out)

 

Club Option - Team chooses to exercise the option in the contract to keep the player or declines the option and the player is a Free Agent...typically there is a buyout amount that the club pays to end the contract

 

Mutual Option - Either Player or Team can pick-up or decline the option in the contract 

 

Fan Option - No such thing...but it's fun to wish and hope for some to stay and others to go

Edited by tvagle, 08 November 2019 - 09:23 PM.

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Is it 2020 yet?

#26 mikelink45

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 09:37 PM

The thing I am interested in is the metrics that tell us who is willing to sign with us.All the noise about Cole and Strasburg mean nothing if neither would consider us.I do not need to talk about every FA on the list, only those we have a real chance to sign. 

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#27 Shaitan

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 10:10 PM

Front-loaded deals sound good on paper, but since nobody does it, I have to assume there are more downsides. One was mentioned above. I imagine there are significant tax differences too. Not all $100 million contracts equal the same amount.


#28 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 07:26 AM

 

Player-Option - Player chooses to pick up the option in the contract or become a Free Agent (Opts-Out)

 

Club Option - Team chooses to exercise the option in the contract to keep the player or declines the option and the player is a Free Agent...typically there is a buyout amount that the club pays to end the contract

 

Mutual Option - Either Player or Team can pick-up or decline the option in the contract 

 

Fan Option - No such thing...but it's fun to wish and hope for some to stay and others to go

Thank you for this explanation.


#29 whosafraidofluigirussolo

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 09:11 AM

Front-loaded deals sound good on paper, but since nobody does it, I have to assume there are more downsides. One was mentioned above. I imagine there are significant tax differences too. Not all $100 million contracts equal the same amount.

 

Teams tend not to do it because, independent of other payroll concerns, expected inflation means that $X (whatever amount) a few seasons from now is less than $X now. So in "real" monetary value (granted, a pretty abstract concept), the same dollar amount in a multi-year contract is somewhat smaller if it's back-loaded than if it's front-loaded or at a flat yearly rate.

 

That's the explanation I've heard. I suppose players might like the greater "real" value of a front-loaded contract—but maybe also wouldn't like the chances that decreasing salary in the later years of a contract could make it easier for their teams to trade them.

 

Anyway, those are general cases, and I don't think it's impossible that a team or a player would be more interested in a front-loaded contract under particular circumstances. Having a young core that's a year or two away from getting expensive seems to be a reason to consider it.

 

Edited by whosafraidofluigirussolo, 09 November 2019 - 09:11 AM.


#30 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 10:57 AM

When the FO refused to offer Darvish the opt out he wanted, Falvey said something to the effect of, "I don't imagine a scenario where I'd ever consider giving a player opt out."

#31 ashbury

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:39 AM

When the FO refused to offer Darvish the opt out he wanted, Falvey said something to the effect of, "I don't imagine a scenario where I'd ever consider giving a player opt out."

To which the obvious rejoinder is, "then you are putting yourself at a negotiating disadvantage relative to other teams when targeting the very top-end talent, and you will have to compensate with more guaranteed money, or other inducements."

 

I don't much like the opt-outs either, despite repeated arguments they don't really hurt, but they're a necessary tool.

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#32 DocBauer

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:46 AM

To which the obvious rejoinder is, "then you are putting yourself at a negotiating disadvantage relative to other teams when targeting the very top-end talent, and you will have to compensate with more guaranteed money, or other inducements."

I don't much like the opt-outs either, despite repeated arguments they don't really hurt, but they're a necessary tool.


Also not a fan of opt outs. You have a good thing going, you'd like to keep it going and not allow a fixture on your team from walking away and now you have a hole to fill all over again.

Then again, if your milb system is healthy, you may have an option ready or about ready to help plug that hole. Futher, let's say you get Wheeler for 3 great seasons and he opts out looking for that one final big deal. Theoretically, someone else now gets stuck overpaying for his final years.

Absolutely understand the negative impact and the FO mot cozying up to the idea. But I sure hope they re-consider because it really could be a useful tool.
"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

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#33 ashbury

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:53 AM

 

Also not a fan of opt outs. You have a good thing going, you'd like to keep it going and not allow a fixture on your team from walking away and now you have a hole to fill all over again.

Then again, if your milb system is healthy, you may have an option ready or about ready to help plug that hole. Futher, let's say you get Wheeler for 3 great seasons and he opts out looking for that one final big deal. Theoretically, someone else now gets stuck overpaying for his final years.

Absolutely understand the negative impact and the FO mot cozying up to the idea. But I sure hope they re-consider because it really could be a useful tool.

I'm almost more concerned about the negotiation psychology, of getting sucked into committing to one extra year at too high a price, with the rationalization that "eh, he'll probably have opted out by that time anyway."

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#34 DocBauer

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 01:38 PM

I'm almost more concerned about the negotiation psychology, of getting sucked into committing to one extra year at too high a price, with the rationalization that "eh, he'll probably have opted out by that time anyway."


Agreed. And that sounds almost exactly like the Darvish contract doesn't it? Extra year plus the opt out. Really, really puts FULL control in the hands of the pitcher.
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"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

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#35 Twins33

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:44 PM

What term would have been used if the Twins had chosen not to pay Cruz's option for 2020? I'm not arguing a point, I'm just trying to gets the term for when the team elects to sever a contract by not renewing the contract, or buys it out? Apparently, it would be incorrect for me to say that the team "opted out " of the contract in that scenario.

Buy out. It’s what the Twins did to Perez.

If they had picked up the team option on Perez he would have been paid 7.5M to stay on the team. If they chose to not keep Perez, which they did, the player gets an agreed on amount that was made when the contract was first signed. They bought him out for 500K, essentially paying him that to go away.



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