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Front Page: Eddie Rosario Continued to Trend Downward in 2019

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#21 Jham

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 09:56 PM

I believe Rosie played through a hammy too, no?

Look at his first half. He was more selective. He frequently dials in and has better ABs when the v pressure's on.

If his wheels are shot, I'd like to see him try first or even third (again). A second half like his first would have him on MVP ballots.

In the end, I trust talent and skillsets. He's got a better chance of developing discipline than Sano has at developing contact.
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#22 Seth Stohs

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:04 PM

 

Rosario was 54th in OPS and 65th in wRC+. He is not all that hard to replace. Cave had an 805 OPS this year and 795 career OPS. I will take Cave and invest the $8M/yr difference in pitching.

 

I agree.. my point is that all Twins fans talk about is trading Rosario for pitching and how bad he is... so fans will be disappointed if the Twins trade him and don't get anything for him, but we're not helping by talking about how bad he is... it's a circle... 

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#23 USAFChief

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:24 PM

I agree.. my point is that all Twins fans talk about is trading Rosario for pitching and how bad he is... so fans will be disappointed if the Twins trade him and don't get anything for him, but we're not helping by talking about how bad he is... it's a circle...

opposing GMs are influenced in their evaluation of Rosario by chatter on TD forums?
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#24 old nurse

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 03:40 AM

 

I agree.. my point is that all Twins fans talk about is trading Rosario for pitching and how bad he is... so fans will be disappointed if the Twins trade him and don't get anything for him, but we're not helping by talking about how bad he is... it's a circle... 

Rosario is now the new Duensing

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#25 Major League Ready

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 05:48 AM

 

I agree.. my point is that all Twins fans talk about is trading Rosario for pitching and how bad he is... so fans will be disappointed if the Twins trade him and don't get anything for him, but we're not helping by talking about how bad he is... it's a circle... 

 

I agree completely with the point that fans here will likely be disappointed with the return for Rosario. No way does he return an established SP, especially anyone who could even remotely be considered an impact pitcher. I also agree with Chief that opposing GMs put absolutely no weight on what is written here and probably are not even aware of what is written here.

 

GMs are going to ask their scouting dept and analytics people for input. They will tell the GM Eddie is dangerous if you give him anything to hit. However, you don't have to give him anything to hit. He simply can not or will not apply any plate discipline. I could see the GM for a contender trading for a prospectand hoping they can convince him his future is dependent upon taking better ABs.

Edited by Major League Ready, 31 October 2019 - 05:57 AM.

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#26 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 05:57 AM

Corner OFs are pretty cheap right now... so no, I dont' think Rosie brings back pitching... I also think people are being way to hard on him. Defensive metrics are pretty flawed, that's especially true of OFers when you have 2+ defenders, which we do when Buxton and Kepler are on the field. But Rosario has graded well when Buxton is off the field.. I'd add that the eye test doesn't back up that he's a bad defender either, so I'd probably toss all of that given the questionable nature of defensive metrics. His biggest flaw is the occasional boneheaded play, but even that has hardly been a consistent thing. 

 

As for the bat, yeah, he needs to be selective. I suspect that guys like him are also going to be more susceptible to "pressing" so to speak since he doesn't naturally lay off pitches, but good Lord when he's on, he's ON... and as others said 1st half Rosario was pretty good. We won't get much for him in a trade. I could be wrong there, and I'd trade him if he was bring back a top shelf starter, but I doubt he does. His replacements will not outperform him... not for now at least.

 

The goal is to improve on 101 wins and advance in the playoffs, not re-arrange the furniture. Rosario should stay. I don't think he's in the long term plans, but he should stay until we have a capable replacement. 

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#27 wabene

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 06:52 AM

Rosario was looking great in the first half last year. Did he get dinged up? Nobody seems to have the answer. He had an 841 ops with 20 dingers in the first half then 750/12 in the second. Big drop off. In 2018 it was 890/19 first half and 622/5. Cripes that's worse. I'm sensing a trend. So let's look at 2017 his first full season in the bigs. 784/10 in the first half and 889/17 in the second. Well there you have it, Eddie just had to be different, eh? Rosie is most likely on the team next year unless somebody were to pry him away. I find that unlikely. Next year could be pivotal for his future Twins career. He's maturing, will he see the writing on the wall? Try to be more disciplined overall? He has to know there are some talented youngsters gunning for his job. I'm interested in watching it play out. Hopefully Baldelli will be more fluid with his lineup placement if we see more of the same.
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#28 TopGunn#22

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 06:57 AM

I agree with a lot of what Doc Bauer says, but I truly believe Larnach or Kiriloff will be ready sometime in 2020.They won't break with the club, but to see one of them up in May or June wouldn't surprise me at all.Eddie has warts and we've all become very familiar with them.But 32 HR's and 109 RBI's just don't fall out of trees every day.Not many teams have a Larnach or Kiriloff knocking on the door.I still think a package of Eddie and Nick Gordon to a team like Arizona could get us Robbie Ray.If the Twins were to trade Eddie for a pitcher like Ray and then sign a veteran OF'er like Garcia or Dickerson (I prefer Garcia, he's a RH bat) then they can afford to be patient with Larnach/Kiriloff.But one of them is going to make it up in 2020 and whoever it is will be a tougher out than Eddie.

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#29 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:13 AM

There is something about Eddie's swing, the length of time his bat is in the zone, the strength of his wrists and lower arms, the drive to the ball... don't know how to describe it, but, it is one of a kind.

 

Does that translate to WAR or some other statitistic?

 

Prolly not.

 

But, if harnessed, he could be, might be, will be, special.

 

Story of an athlete's life I guess.

 

"Eddie, is it in you?"

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#30 Seth Stohs

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:21 AM

 

opposing GMs are influenced in their evaluation of Rosario by chatter on TD forums?

 

Probably. Ha!


#31 mikelink45

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:56 AM

 

Man... Twins fans want the team to trade Rosario for some quality pitching (prospects or current)... and then everything yo read, from Twins fans, online is how terrible he is... Teams are going to read all this from Twins fans and really want to trade for him now!!

 

Also, I think we need to stop bashing 32 and 109.. and an .800 OPS. I've seen way too many Twins teams where we dreamed of having a guy or two with an .800 OPS. Obviously it needs to be taken with context but still. I'll take that any year... 

Thank you for a sensible response.I have never seen a group so anxious to trade a good player spend so much ink telling everyone how terrible he is.

 

The HR and RBIs do matter.As a matter of fact with the HRs of Cruz and Kepler and Polanco it is amazing he found that many he could drive in.

 

Entry
Why the Eddie Rosario hate?
Last Update Oct 24 2019 08:27 AM

 
 

 

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#32 mikelink45

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:59 AM

 

I agree with a lot of what Doc Bauer says, but I truly believe Larnach or Kiriloff will be ready sometime in 2020.They won't break with the club, but to see one of them up in May or June wouldn't surprise me at all.Eddie has warts and we've all become very familiar with them.But 32 HR's and 109 RBI's just don't fall out of trees every day.Not many teams have a Larnach or Kiriloff knocking on the door.I still think a package of Eddie and Nick Gordon to a team like Arizona could get us Robbie Ray.If the Twins were to trade Eddie for a pitcher like Ray and then sign a veteran OF'er like Garcia or Dickerson (I prefer Garcia, he's a RH bat) then they can afford to be patient with Larnach/Kiriloff.But one of them is going to make it up in 2020 and whoever it is will be a tougher out than Eddie.

Sure Arizona can pair him with Escobar in the middle of their lineup.

 

Still if we get Robbie Ray I am happy. 

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#33 mikelink45

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 08:07 AM

 

opposing GMs are influenced in their evaluation of Rosario by chatter on TD forums?

In this age of communications a site like TD probably has more influence than any fan related communications ever have. When we get a break down like this it is an easy cut and paste.So maybe we underestimate the reach of TD.

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#34 dex8425

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 09:16 AM

 

Poor fielding free swinging outfielders can be had pretty easily on the Free Agent market or via trade. So we got 1 in Eddie. If anyone has been watching the World Series you'll notice that there isn't anyone on either lineup that is like Eddie. 

 Idk, Altuve swings at a lot of pitches outside the zone. Of course, he also has won an MVP and batting champs, OPS'ed over .900 this year, and plays second base, not a corner outfield spot.But his approach can be frustrating at times. 


#35 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 11:45 AM

 

Rosario was 54th in OPS and 65th in wRC+. He is not all that hard to replace. Cave had an 805 OPS this year and 795 career OPS. I will take Cave and invest the $8M/yr difference in pitching.

 

Give Cave an everyday job and he will get slaughtered. Plus, if you think Rosario's defense was bad, Cave is worse than that. 

 

Rosario is also a middle of the order bat, while Cave is most definitely not. 

 

I already said I'd be fine with moving on from Rosario if its to go after some pitching talent. However, if you get rid of him and sign the type of guy you would likely get with Rosario's 8 mill, it's not worth it. Those types of starters grade out as a much worse version of Kyle Gibson at best. 

 

 


#36 Mike Sixel

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 12:11 PM

 

Give Cave an everyday job and he will get slaughtered. Plus, if you think Rosario's defense was bad, Cave is worse than that. 

 

Rosario is also a middle of the order bat, while Cave is most definitely not. 

 

I already said I'd be fine with moving on from Rosario if its to go after some pitching talent. However, if you get rid of him and sign the type of guy you would likely get with Rosario's 8 mill, it's not worth it. Those types of starters grade out as a much worse version of Kyle Gibson at best. 

 

The 8 million is added to whatever else they can spend.......I'm not sure how that's debatable even. It frees up 8 million more dollars to spend. And probably 10 million next year.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#37 Riverbrian

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 12:41 PM

 

In this age of communications a site like TD probably has more influence than any fan related communications ever have. When we get a break down like this it is an easy cut and paste.So maybe we underestimate the reach of TD.

 

(True Story)

 

Back in May of2016... Brian Dozier was looking absolutely horrible (along with the entire team) but Dozier was capable of so much more. His extended slump had brought his batting average below .200 and I couldn't tolerate it anymore so the only thing I posted on Twinsdaily was something like: "BRIAN DOZIER -- FIX HIM!!!"  

 

The next day, Terry Ryan talks to the press and he is quoted saying... "We've got to FIX him". 

 

Dozier was benched the next day... for like a day and then he went on a home run tear... Hit like 80 home runs from June to September. 

 

Your Welcome everyone.

 

I did that.:)  

 

(True Story)

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#38 scottz

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 12:46 PM

He's the perfect guy for arbitration. Player and team throw out a number and argue about it in the nicest way possible. Pay him whatever is decided. I'm no arbitration dollars expert, but whatever jump he gets from the $4 million he had this year is something the team can swallow without impacting their quest for pitching. Keep playing him until one of the kids does to Rosario what Arraez did to Schoop. If nobody steps up, play the same game going into 2021.

 

Also, Cave is a perfectly fine 4th outfielder. He is not Rosario's equivalent, in my opinion.

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#39 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 01:41 PM

 

The 8 million is added to whatever else they can spend.......I'm not sure how that's debatable even. It frees up 8 million more dollars to spend. And probably 10 million next year.

 

It's more my distrust of the organization and the cheap way in which they have operated forever. 

 

I don't trust that they would even use the savings to add talent. They would probably say they needed it to give Ordorizzi his raise. 

 

My point is, the Twins have more than enough money hanging around where they don't have to start a Jake Cave or an unproven prospect in left field when they are in contention. Keep Rosario unless he is part of a bigger package for some studly pitching. 

 

If the Twins move him for minor league players with the situation this team is in right now, it will just reinforce my belief that they are cheap and miserly. 

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#40 Boom Boom

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 04:49 PM

They could trade Rosario for pitching, but probably not impact pitching. And I don't care about the cost savings from moving him because the Twins can spend all the money they want.



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