Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Article: Roster Reconstruction Begins

  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#1 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,450 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:31 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...truction-Begins

#2 Mr. Ed

Mr. Ed

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 827 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:42 AM

Like the typo

[COLOR=#3E3E3E]Next, the Twins drooped several players from their 40 man roster.

[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#3E3E3E]Appropriate description for a collection of pitchers who contributed to a droopy season.[/COLOR]

#3 AM.

AM.

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 364 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:57 AM

I'd add Hicks, Gibson, Hermsen, Salcedo, Bromberg, and Slama.

#4 Teddy

Teddy

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:24 AM

AM, I can only say that your first three will definitely be on the list. The first five SHOULD be on the list.

I can also definitely say that Slama will not be on the list. He is as gone as Gutierrez. I don't understand why the Twins won't give him a legitimate shot, but if they wouldn't call him up with his numbers the past two years, there's no reason that they will waste a spot on the 40 for him this offseason.

#5 Teddy

Teddy

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:25 AM

...and one more thing:

Alexi Casilla should be non-tendered. That opens up one more spot on the list.

#6 roger

roger

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 322 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:36 AM

Good morning Seth. I think there are two locks (Gibson and Hicks). Then there are three more of which I think they will add one or two. They are Hermsen, Pugh and Tonkin. Pugh passed through last year, yet was much better this year. Tonkin is very good, but how many Hi-A relievers get picked? Hermsen I think will also get added.

Santana is another prospect who could be lost, but again was a Hi-A player. Not many A ball players get selected.

#7 SweetOne69

SweetOne69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 463 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:45 AM

Correction: The roster stands at 35, not 34.

#8 NoCryingInBaseball

NoCryingInBaseball

    Member

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:57 AM

Kyle Gibson-SP and Aaron Hicks-OF are no-brainers, but with some room to spare (for now) I would include at least five more prospects. My list includes Adrian Salcedo-SP (who looked good a year ago, but a lousy year…could be due to elbow and shoulder injuries), Michael Tonkin-SP (Twins need pitching prospects, especially one that throws in the mid-90s), Bruce Pugh-RHP (seems like a good bullpen prospect), and David Bromberg-SP (yet another pitcher who is trying to come back from injuries). I would like to include Danny Santana- SS (even with Levi Michael ahead of in on the depth chart, he seems to have some hitting potential) on my list, however since pitching prospects are the most important, I would include BJ Hermsen- SP, the Iowa kid that was Twins minor league pitcher of the year in 2012.

Kyle Gibson
Aaron Hicks
Adrian Salcedo
Michael Tonkin
Bruce Pugh
David Bromberg
BJ Hermsen

#9 SarasotaBill

SarasotaBill

    Member

  • Members
  • 36 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

Presently at 35
Minus Pavano & Casilla
Plus: Rule V pick & (2) SP Free Agent
Even: Trade Span or other player on 40 for SP

Four Spots: Hicks, Gibson, Hermsen, open

Open - could be Blackburn if he pitches well in ST or other.

#10 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Hydraulic Choppers

  • Members
  • 1,110 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:47 AM

So... if Nick Blackburn is selected in the Rule 5 draft, does the selecting team pay his $5 million salary? 'Cause that would be great if someone would do that for the Twins.

#11 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,450 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:08 AM

I really like Bromberg. Good kid. Has talent. But he was dropped from the 40 man a year ago and no one took him, and he struggled in 2012 as well, so they wouldn't lose him if he's not added.

regarding Slama, there doesn't appear to be much worry about losing him in the Rule 5 draft either. He was taken off the 40 man after the 2011 season and no one claimed him or selected him. Unlikely he'd be lost in the Rule 5 this year either. (and frankly, if he is, I'd be incredibly happy for him!)

I think with Tonkin pitching well in the AFL, he may have to be added as well. Young, throws 95ish, good secondary pitches, sinker...

I'm starting to think that they won't add Hermsen, but will add Pugh and Tonkin. Obviously I don't know, but that's just a gut feeling.

And, I wouldn't say that Santana is below Levi Michael on a SS depth chart. Santana played more at SS than Michael did. He also has a much stronger arm.

#12 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,047 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:12 AM

Agreed, non-tender Casilla. Agreed, they will not protect Slama. Agreed, they will sign Baker to a new deal in the next 7 days.

#13 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:39 AM

as for signing scott baker they should offer a 1 million dollar contract,with incentives for each month he is in the majors,say 1 million per month.
gibson and baker should not be canidents to break camp with the twins but should be in rochestor till they are proven healthy and winning .
as for the stache (pavano) he came into the leaque throwing 96mph and last game pitched struggled to throw 86mph...this 3 time arm injured pitcher should be avoided at all costs,while i think he knows pitching better then most of our players you cant sucseed on heart only

#14 Forever34

Forever34

    Member

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:47 AM

Bummer about losing Gutierrez. Didn't see Delois Guierra (spl?) on the list. Does that mean the crown jewel is safe and they no longer need to waste a roster spot for him? I thought there was some rule about how long a guy can stay on the 40-man without making the major league roster. I'm not an expert on all these roster rules.

Doubt Slama will be put on the roster. The only good thing about that is that if that happens we will know once and for all whether he is the prospect we all think he is. If no one bites, clearly the Twins FO is right to think of him as a non-major league caliber pitcher. My gut tells me at least one team will since he is as finished a prospect as you can get and some bad team will be able to keep him on their 25-man all year.

#15 zenser

zenser

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 205 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

I can see Hicks and Gibson being added for sure. I also think Hermson and Thielbar have a legitimate shot of getting added. Maybe Pugh or Lehmann ?

#16 Rosterman

Rosterman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 987 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:06 AM

Offer Baker a $1 mil contract with $1 mil for each month in the majors? Baker can get that with any team. So we need to match loyalty with some sort of two-year contract with real-based incentives. Many teams would take a low-ball chance on Baker.

Hermsen is interesting. In the Rule 5 world you have to keep a player on your majo league roster all season. The number of teams capable of doing this are usually 7-8. Maybe a team like the Astros could really gamble and keep 3-4 players, and they would be one to add Hermsen. That's the crap shoot. Hermsen has to be protected and he is sloted as being a memebr of the Twins by 2015, surely.

Seth, what is the requirement for minor league Rule 5...where the Twins grabbed Marty Popham last season. They have to be A-ball or below and be added to AA/AAA rosters for the season? The Twins seem to lose a couple of guys this way each year.

Gutierrez was a loss, but he wasn't going to contribute in 2013 and was in the same situation as Slama, getting older and injured. Now the Cubs have to keep him on their roster. And he probably won't stay. See him in the minior league free agent pickings sooner rather than never.

The Twins can free up more roster spots with arbitration. Casilla, Butera. Not sure if they will stick with Swarzak.

Then they still have names like Guerra, Oliveros and Joe Benson who could be dropped for free agent signings if push came to shove. Even players like DeVries and Deduno could be switched out to major/minor contracts if the right free agents were signed.

So there is lots and lots of roster space to work work (not to mention Hernandez and Escobar, or Florimon...none of whom should be in demand if ran thru waivers, seriously, or not easily replaceable).

Guess doesn't speak well for the roster in general. The Twins still have 25-guys, but HOW MANY ARE IN DEMAND by anyone?

#17 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,374 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:22 AM

Not a lot of quality in any of these guys. Looks very thin for another year or 2. How many of the 30+ remaining players could be or might be called quality major [COLOR=#3E3E3E]leaguers[/COLOR]? Maybe half?
As for Baker don't you want to see him pitch at least a little before you give him any money?

#18 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,450 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

Bummer about losing Gutierrez. Didn't see Delois Guierra (spl?) on the list. Does that mean the crown jewel is safe and they no longer need to waste a roster spot for him? I thought there was some rule about how long a guy can stay on the 40-man without making the major league roster. I'm not an expert on all these roster rules.

Doubt Slama will be put on the roster. The only good thing about that is that if that happens we will know once and for all whether he is the prospect we all think he is. If no one bites, clearly the Twins FO is right to think of him as a non-major league caliber pitcher. My gut tells me at least one team will since he is as finished a prospect as you can get and some bad team will be able to keep him on their 25-man all year.


Guerra is out of options, so (unless something changes later in the offseason) he will head to spring training. He will have to make the Twins 25 man roster and stay on it. Or, he'll have to be DFAd and put through waivers. If he clears, he can go back to Rochester. If he is claimed, that team will have to keep him on their active roster.

As for Slama, the FO has already been proven right as he cleared waivers a year ago and wasn't selected in the Rule 5. That's not to say that he couldn't be claimed in the Rule 5, but we'll see.

#19 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,047 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:14 AM

So a player that clears waivers cannot be good? Nothing is proven on Slama until he actually pitches in the majors, or never pitches there. But I have little doubt he will pitch for a different team next year.

#20 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

So a player that clears waivers cannot be good? Nothing is proven on Slama until he actually pitches in the majors, or never pitches there. But I have little doubt he will pitch for a different team next year.


november 1st i will head down to mazatlan to watch slama and wise play in a 3 game series2-4th november
i hope if the twins arnt going to give tony a shot or he gets picked in the rule 5 draft ....

#21 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,134 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:30 AM

I think the point is that, whatever the Twins think they've seen in Slama that makes them skeptical of his ability to be a Major League pitcher, it would appear other organizations have seen the same thing. I've never been to a minor league game where there weren't at least half a dozen (and sometimes as many as 20) scouts on hand to evaluate the players on both rosters and it would just appear that there haven't been too many of them rushing to call their GM to encourage them to try to get Slama from the Twins.

That being said, I do think he deserves a legitimate shot somewhere and I hope he gets it with some organization this spring.

Edited by Jim Crikket, 25 October 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[COLOR=#0000cd]I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at[/COLOR][COLOR=#800000] Knuckleballsblog.com[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd][COLOR=#800000]MetroSportsReport.com[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000cd]
[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#b22222]~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~[/COLOR]

#22 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,450 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:45 PM

So a player that clears waivers cannot be good? Nothing is proven on Slama until he actually pitches in the majors, or never pitches there. But I have little doubt he will pitch for a different team next year.


Of course. We all believe that Slama can be a decent back-of-the-bullpen reliever. My point was that, when the Twins let him become available, not one other team claimed him and he didn't lose an option year in 2012. I believe he can be solid and certainly deserves the chance, but the Twins have certainly measured him as a prospect accurately.

#23 IdahoPilgrim

IdahoPilgrim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,424 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

what is the requirement for minor league Rule 5...where the Twins grabbed Marty Popham last season. They have to be A-ball or below and be added to AA/AAA rosters for the season? The Twins seem to lose a couple of guys this way each year.


This used to always confuse me too. I finally found something that explains it. The minor league portion has two phases - AAA phase and AA phase. For the AAA phase, the player has to be AA or below, and the new club is required to keep him on the AAA reserve roster (but not necessarily on the AAA active roster) the entire season, or he goes back. For the AA phase, the player has to be A or below, with the same roster requirements (has to be on the AA reserve roster the entire season).

That makes it slightly different than the major league phase, as players taken in that have to stay on the active roster all year and not just the reserve roster.

For AAA teams the reserve roster can have up to 38 players; AA can have up to 37 players; A and below can have up to 35 players. For the major leagues, of course, the reserve roster is the 40-man roster.

#24 AM.

AM.

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 364 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:07 PM

Slama wasn't claimed last year because he was injured. He would get claimed this year, and become a reliable part of someone else's bullpen unless the Twins protect him.

#25 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Moderately Moderate

  • Twins Mods
  • 3,748 posts

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

Slama wasn't claimed last year because he was injured. He would get claimed this year, and become a reliable part of someone else's bullpen unless the Twins protect him.


Why is everybody so convinced of this, despite the fact a lot of pretty knowledgeable baseball people aren't? I get giving him a chance, he does deserve it, but all these proclamations of guaranteed success is a little presumptuous.

#26 Kwak

Kwak

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,291 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:24 AM

Slama wasn't claimed last year because he was injured. He would get claimed this year, and become a reliable part of someone else's bullpen unless the Twins protect him.


Why is everybody so convinced of this, despite the fact a lot of pretty knowledgeable baseball people aren't? I get giving him a chance, he does deserve it, but all these proclamations of guaranteed success is a little presumptuous.


I venture this guess--the same reason why people buy metal detectors and roam the beaches and fields.

#27 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:31 AM

so its ok to give drew butera , a roster spot, but not to give slama a look?
wasnt there a jones in san diego 30 years ago who no one thought was very good?
anthony slama has done what ever is asked, where is the twins loyalty now?
they brought nishi up, kept gray on the roster, manship, but not slama? hmm

#28 East Coast Twin

East Coast Twin

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 145 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:40 AM

what is the requirement for minor league Rule 5...where the Twins grabbed Marty Popham last season. They have to be A-ball or below and be added to AA/AAA rosters for the season? The Twins seem to lose a couple of guys this way each year.


This used to always confuse me too. I finally found something that explains it. The minor league portion has two phases - AAA phase and AA phase. For the AAA phase, the player has to be AA or below, and the new club is required to keep him on the AAA reserve roster (but not necessarily on the AAA active roster) the entire season, or he goes back. For the AA phase, the player has to be A or below, with the same roster requirements (has to be on the AA reserve roster the entire season).

That makes it slightly different than the major league phase, as players taken in that have to stay on the active roster all year and not just the reserve roster.

For AAA teams the reserve roster can have up to 38 players; AA can have up to 37 players; A and below can have up to 35 players. For the major leagues, of course, the reserve roster is the 40-man roster.


You say a player has to be "AA or below" to be eligible for the AAA phase of the Rule 5 draft. Does that mean any draft eligible player not on the Twins 38 man AAA reserve roster?

#29 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,450 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:20 AM

Basically there is the 40 man MLB roster. There is a 38 man AAA roster, and a 37 man AA roster. If a player is eligible, but not put on the 40 man roster, he can still be put on the AAA roster. Who is eligible for the AAA reserve list? Take the MLB rules for eligibility and subtract a year. Do the same for the AA roster. So, Alex Wimmers doesn't have to be added to the 40 man roster this year for the Twins, but he would have to be next year. That means he has to be added to the AAA roster this year. if a player is taken in the minor league portion, he stays with the other organization. None of the have-to-be-offered-back stuff. It's more difficult to know because the AAA and AA reserve lists are not made public (to my knowledge).

#30 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,712 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:51 AM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][quote name='AM.'].

Why is everybody so convinced of this, despite the fact a lot of pretty knowledgeable baseball people aren't? I get giving him a chance, he does deserve it, but all these proclamations of guaranteed success is a little presumptuous.[/QUOTE]

It is like cheering for the second string QB in football