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#21 MMMordabito

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 12:01 PM

 

His defense is his positive and the Twins have a lack of defensively capable infielders as mentioned before.

 

I think I remember Levine specifically stating that they thought his bat was MLB ready, but his glove was where they wanted to see more improvement.This was after his AA breakout in 2018.The glove and conditioning/health seem to be what's actually holding him back.

 

If defense is what you're looking for, Gordon appears to be a major downgrade from Adrianza.

 

Have the Phillies called up Aaron Nola yet? ... oh wait.

 

Is that Trea Turner hitting leadoff for the team that's up 2-0 in the WS?I need to go check my glasses to be sure.

 

Speaking of infield defense .... Matt Chapman sure looks good at the hot corner!

Edited by MMMordabito, 25 October 2019 - 12:03 PM.


#22 Dman

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 12:29 PM

 

I still like Nick Gordon. It was a tough break for him the injuries this year, because he was playing well and now Arraez has jumped past him on the charts. he's still a guy who has real value and while I'm not opposed to trading him, I don't think this is the offseason to do it, because I expect us to get low-balled on him from everyone.

 

If you love Arraez, you shouldn't hate on Gordon. At age 21 in AA, who hit better? It was actually Gordon. Who hit better at age 22 in AA? Again...it was Gordon. Gordon has more pop in his bat, Arraez has the advantage of never having had a down year adjusting to a level and didn't get injured at the wrong time. Neither are defensive stalwarts. Both are going to hit for average. Arraez is a bit younger.

 

I'd much rather have Gordon on the roster as the possible replacement for Adrianza or as the first call up from AAA for a middle infielder in case of injury then getting an underwhelming return as a throw-in. His player profile has real value, but I think his perceived value around the league is disastrously low and I'm not ok with the concept of "eh, Arraez has passed him so let's move on for whatever bag of balls someone wants to give us".

 

Totally love your take here as it is pretty the same as my own.Gordan has been doing OK.His OPS is nothing to write home about but having a young solid Utility depth guy is not a bad thing to have in your pocket. He can be this years Torreyes for us.A guy who can help us if multiple infield injuries come up.

 

I agree with your premise of why sell low.He appears to be a solid player with the potential to get better. To be a Marwin or Escobar like player down the road.Unless we are dying for that 40 man spot for some reason I think it makes sense to keep him around.If someone wants to over pay for him in a trade then that works for me too.I just don't feel like he is throw in materiel but that's me. He has value and given time and opportunity I think will provide more value than most people think.

 

No one thought Arraez provided much value before this year and Gordon has greater speed and a better arm than Arraez.They are fairly similar players with the exception of Arraez's amazing eye at the plate which very few in baseball can match.

 

I agree with others that it would be nice to see greater durability.He was out early this year and then late with a HBP injury.He still had decent numbers at AAA .298/..342 with and .800 OPS.A little more muscle another year of experience should serve him well.He might not be the All-Star he should have been being drafted that high but I see a guy who can still be very valuable down the road.

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#23 Penthang

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:13 PM

I can see that there is still potential for Gordon and don’t believe that the Twins should just give him away. That said, if they can get decent value with him as part of a trade package they should. If they can’t get value for him they should absolutely not just throw him in on a trade, they should keep him and start giving him reps at all 4 infield positions and maybe the outfield corners as well…before they want to move him around in the majors. He is a potential replacement for Adrianza, who the Twins might not retain this offseason and probably won’t next year.
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#24 goulik

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 02:07 PM

 

Coming of his first "full" season at AAA, (yes, injuries shortened his year), with quality numbers, he remains an "intriguing" prospect for the Twins and other organizations. He is no longer a headline prospect, but I dare say he is much better than some throw in option. He appears to be a late, not old, developer who brings a lot, potentially, to the table. Probably not a star, but a potential starter of good quality, he could provide solid defense at two positions, with a decent bat, some OB and contact, combined with speed and some pop.

I sure wouldn't mind having him. He reminds me a bit of Adrianza and Escobar. Remember, Adrianza produced fairly well in milb but was a glove first player, and Escobar was similar. Late bloomers have a place, either as quality role players or potential starters.

If not traded, I feel Gordon will play for the Twins in 2020 at some point. The skill set is there. At some point, he may replace Adrianza, or could be the next Marwin. Hard to say.

2020 could be his make or break season.

You said it all before I could say it. 

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#25 Platoon

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 03:32 PM

If I was a MLB FA pitcher and someone offered me a chance to pitch in front of the Twins IF, and frankly their catchers, I would have to give serious thought to the wisdom of that idea. Oh they can hit, but that is one awful looking IF. It's almost inconceivable that this orginisation cannot draft and develop a SS who doesn't need his offensive prowess to justify his playing that position?
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#26 Mike Sixel

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 03:58 PM

He's 22 in AAA.......

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#27 darin617

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 04:43 PM

I highly doubt he will ever make it to the majors. Another "can't miss prospect" that should have been dealt while he had value.


#28 insagt1

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 06:30 PM

 

The best value the Twins can get from Gordon for next season is as a trading chip in a package towards a starting pitcher this offseason.  

 

We are talking about a guy who has fallen apart the second half of every single season as a pro.Counting on Gordon as a full time piece makes no sense if you want to compete.The Twins need pitching more than they need Gordon.

I watched him in rochester every game in 2019. After a disastrous AAA season in 2018 where his BA dropped consistently from June thru August....hitting a low of .205...he bounced back nicely in 2019. He hit .348 in July, with an OBP of .402 and OPS of .937. That is hardly falling apart. In fact he was gaining steam when he hit a foul off his ankle and that finished his season. His final BA was .298. He led the team in steals with 14 and he cut down on his k's. His 'd' was all over the place. From the spectacular plays that earned him standing 'O's' to booting routine grounders. A work in progress.

He was on the fast track until Arraez showed up. Twins may very well use him to get pitching, because at the moment his way is blocked. But if they hang on to him, he may eventually earn a spot. If he stays, I see him starting in rochester in 2020. We all figured he was going to be a bust after 2018, but not the case.

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#29 RochesterDave

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 07:51 PM

I also am a season ticket holder at Frontier Field in Rochester - and I concede Nick was much better in 2019 than the previous year. But I never saw him make a spectacular play in the field, and his hands/arm are not SS worthy. He was not a leader on the team and I would have much rather had Jake Cave, Astudillo (when there) , Zander Weil, Thomas Telis , Lamont Wade or even Drew Maggi up in a clutch situation. I see that we don’t agree on his future, but hope that you are right.

#30 D.C Twins

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 09:27 PM

Trade value he'd bring back right now would likely not be worth it.

 

Need to keep him and see what happens. Hopefully he tears up AAA out of the gates and then we can sell higher or sell an MLB to make room.

 

Trading right now is selling low

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#31 Kelly Vance

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 11:11 PM

 

If I was a MLB FA pitcher and someone offered me a chance to pitch in front of the Twins IF, and frankly their catchers, I would have to give serious thought to the wisdom of that idea. Oh they can hit, but that is one awful looking IF. It's almost inconceivable that this orginisation cannot draft and develop a SS who doesn't need his offensive prowess to justify his playing that position?

and yet they won 101 games

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#32 JLease

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 08:59 AM

 

I highly doubt he will ever make it to the majors. Another "can't miss prospect" that should have been dealt while he had value.

 

I'll take that bet. Absent a career-ending injury in like spring training, Nick Gordon will make it to the majors. I don't know if he'll be good, great, or a bust but I'm pretty damn certain Nick Gordon plays in MLB. Frankly, he's very likely to play this season. If not for the untimely injury last season, he probably would have played for us last season in MLB.

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#33 insagt1

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 01:19 PM

 

I also am a season ticket holder at Frontier Field in Rochester - and I concede Nick was much better in 2019 than the previous year. But I never saw him make a spectacular play in the field, and his hands/arm are not SS worthy. He was not a leader on the team and I would have much rather had Jake Cave, Astudillo (when there) , Zander Weil, Thomas Telis , Lamont Wade or even Drew Maggi up in a clutch situation. I see that we don’t agree on his future, but hope that you are right.

what section are you in Dave? I don't think his position is SS. It's 2nd base. He probably wasn't a 'leader' but he did make a few very nice plays...along with some nerve wracking errors on routine grounders I know. Based on the way he was coming on in July I was looking for a solid August. Was not to be. Wings had far too many k's in 2019 and Gordon was starting to cut down on his. A good sign. I think he remains valuable 'currency' as they say, in the organization.

PS--I don't know how you felt about Skinner, but I am not sad to see him go.


#34 Monkeypaws

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 01:48 PM

 

I think I remember Levine specifically stating that they thought his bat was MLB ready, but his glove was where they wanted to see more improvement.This was after his AA breakout in 2018.The glove and conditioning/health seem to be what's actually holding him back.

 

If defense is what you're looking for, Gordon appears to be a major downgrade from Adrianza.

 

Have the Phillies called up Aaron Nola yet? ... oh wait.

 

Is that Trea Turner hitting leadoff for the team that's up 2-0 in the WS?I need to go check my glasses to be sure.

 

Speaking of infield defense .... Matt Chapman sure looks good at the hot corner!

On the other hand, 47 out of 60 1st round and supplemental 1st rounders from 2012 have a lower career WAR than 12th rounder Taylor Rogers, including picks 5-10 overall. Works both ways.

 

Sure, the Twins aren't perfect, but neither are the other teams. 

 

And if you wanna pick on Gordon, how about #1 and #2 from that draft, Brady Aiken and Tyler Kopek? At least Gordon will likely make the majors, whereas neither of those guys made it past A ball.

Edited by Monkeypaws, 26 October 2019 - 01:49 PM.

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#35 jorgenswest

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 01:03 PM

The Twins need to get this assessment right. If they are confident in Gordon they player to sell high is Arraez.
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#36 Platoon

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 03:18 PM

and yet they won 101 games

That they did. It's sort of a shame they couldn't have made it 104 games. Or maybe 103? Or even 102? They had a great offensive year, along with something like 20 other teams and the company that makes MLB baseballs. But that does not hide the fact that this isn't a good defensive baseball team. Those flaws were painfully exposed in the playoffs. Those deficiencies coupled with more or less the same level pitching, and one had better hope that the Bombas continue at a high level.
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#37 mlhouse

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 06:27 PM

Gordon should commit himself to earning a utility infielder role with the Twins. That means he needs to get more experience playing 3B, improve his defense at both middle infielder positions, and like Arreaz he should look at being at least a primitive LF. 

 

This defensive flexibility would create value for him even if his bat disappoints a bit.

 

The Twins should also look at putting him in a trade package.I doubt his trade value alone is worth much at this time, but as a piece of a package he could bring the Twins in a quality bullpen arm.


#38 RochesterDave

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 06:44 PM

what section are you in Dave? I don't think his position is SS. It's 2nd base. He probably wasn't a 'leader' but he did make a few very nice plays...along with some nerve wracking errors on routine grounders I know. Based on the way he was coming on in July I was looking for a solid August. Was not to be. Wings had far too many k's in 2019 and Gordon was starting to cut down on his. A good sign. I think he remains valuable 'currency' as they say, in the organization.
PS--I don't know how you felt about Skinner, but I am not sad to see him go.

I couldn’t agree more about Skinner being let go as the Red Wings manager. He was unenthusiastic and never seemed to argue about questionable ump calls. In terms of this Nick Gordon discussion, I hope he has a great start to 2020 and he’s packaged come trade time . He’s not a hustler and in terms of Twins fans - he’s the anti-Nick Punto. I think next years Red Wings team should be the most entertain years as I expect to see Lewis, Kiriloff and Larnach sooner than later. As an aside, I hated to see Jaylin Davis traded - he was their best player by far this year and they desperately need a RH hitting outfielder. I am in Section 120, between home and the visitors dugout.

#39 Doctor Wu

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:43 AM

Gordon was a fantastic high school player who hit .505 and pitched to a 0.78 ERA over 35 2/3 innings in his last year of high school baseball.

 

Is it too late for him to resurrect those dormant pitching skills?


#40 insagt1

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 05:59 PM

 

what section are you in Dave? I don't think his position is SS. It's 2nd base. He probably wasn't a 'leader' but he did make a few very nice plays...along with some nerve wracking errors on routine grounders I know. Based on the way he was coming on in July I was looking for a solid August. Was not to be. Wings had far too many k's in 2019 and Gordon was starting to cut down on his. A good sign. I think he remains valuable 'currency' as they say, in the organization.
PS--I don't know how you felt about Skinner, but I am not sad to see him go.

I couldn’t agree more about Skinner being let go as the Red Wings manager. He was unenthusiastic and never seemed to argue about questionable ump calls. In terms of this Nick Gordon discussion, I hope he has a great start to 2020 and he’s packaged come trade time . He’s not a hustler and in terms of Twins fans - he’s the anti-Nick Punto. I think next years Red Wings team should be the most entertain years as I expect to see Lewis, Kiriloff and Larnach sooner than later. As an aside, I hated to see Jaylin Davis traded - he was their best player by far this year and they desperately need a RH hitting outfielder. I am in Section 120, between home and the visitors dugout.

I'm in 209, first row right over the ramp between home and 1st. Trading Davis was a dagger to the heart of Red Wings fans. I so remember the game where we needed to get a runner in scoring position and the struggling Davis was up. All of us were screaming...bunt...don't strike out. He then hit his 1st HR. We all just stared at each other! Rest as they say is history. I doubt Twins will ever get value from that trade.

After Mike Quade, Skinner was a cardboard cutout. Even our venerable Bob Matthews said he was 'boring'. That was being kind.




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