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#41 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:00 AM

I'd definitely go hard after a top end starter (Cole, Strassburg if he's an option).Wheeler scares me a bit. I'd probably try and get Jake to a 3/40 type deal or QO him if he won't. Given Graterol won't go a full season, I could see signing Pineda to a 1/5-7 type deal and letting Graterol start while he's suspended and switch to the pen or long relief once Pineda is ready. 

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#42 bunsen82

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:03 AM

Honestly this is what I am looking at. 

 

Cole      30 mil (7 years 210 million)

Odorizzo 15 mil (3 year 45 million )

Pineda  10 mil(2 year 22 million- 10 mil 2020 12 mil 2021)

Romo     3 mil (1 year with 1 year option total potentional 6 million)

 

For Reliever get one more solid arm at 6-8 million. 

 

That is 66 million.That brings total payroll to around $120. That allows 15 to 20 million to figure out 1st base and any other extensions. 

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#43 SwainZag

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:03 AM

 

I would like to see Kiriloff come up and replace Cron. Resign Odorizzi and Pineda if possible.If Dyson were healthy I would say the bullpen is maybe done but instead we need to replace Dyson equivalent.If we can sign Odorizzi and Pineda then adding one more Odorizzi or Pineda type or better would complete the off season. Cole would be ideal. 

 

If you want someone in the system replacing Cron, Rooker probably is the more likely option.He put up a .933 OPS in AAA last year.Kiriloff's OPS against AA pitching was lower than what Cron did at the major league level.

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#44 Kelly Vance

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:11 AM

Yeah, I agree with the Graterol/Big Mike idea. If Busdar is ready to start the season as a MLB starter. Time to find out.

 

If Cole doesn't want to come here, (even if we offer $5 million more than anyone else) we go next man up. I think Cole will listen to the Angels or Padres or Dodgers the most, being a SoCal guy.

 

Mad Bum isn't ideal but he has been there and his leadership would be welcome.

 

I think stud FA pitchers would be more open to coming to Minnesota after this year. We have a fun bunch with great team chemistry

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#45 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 12:01 PM

If it were me, I would do my best to get Cole in here, then also turn around and trade Lewis +for whoever you feel the best trade candidate pitcher is available.

 

Polanco, Aaraez, Kepler, Buxton, Sano, Garver. There are enough bats/position players on this team that are young and will be here for a bit yet. If you can trade a top prospect for a young pitcher you feel can be a 1 or 2, DO IT. Quit hanging on to all these guys as if they will all pan out to be Babe Ruth. 

 

Lewis could just as easily turn into Aaron Hicks and he can turn into a starting SS. Either way, I'd trade that type of guys for great pitching either way. What is the hold up, really?

 

To me you go into this offseason with the thought of getting one of the top 3 FA starters and using the humongous high end depth in your minor league system to bring in the absolute best arm you can. If you tank after a year or two, go ahead and trade some of that high end pitching and get more prospect back. Take a chance for once!

 

Cole/Wheeler/Baum

Berrios

Trade for stud(don't ask for names that is what we pay the wonderboys to know)

Ordorizi

Pineda/Graterol/whoever the hell you want from your system...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Battle ur tail off, 09 October 2019 - 12:01 PM.

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#46 Mike Sixel

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 12:53 PM

Who said they won't get 2 good pitchers? They may even pick up 3. Don't confuse free agent pitchers with good pitchers. Free agency has been the market of last resort for many years, and it's become even more clear the past 2 off-seasons.


They need three pitchers. They aren't going to gut the system to trade for three. That would be stupid. I never said they wouldn't, I said if they don't, then they aren't serious. Nothing more or less was said in that post.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 09 October 2019 - 12:54 PM.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#47 Tomj14

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:26 PM

 

I've seen both here and elsewhere suggesting Odorizzi signing a 3 year contract. I don't see it happening, this is his one real chance to sign a relatively long, lucrative contract. I'm betting he gets a 5 year contract, though a 4 year one with an option at the end also seems quite possible.

Edit: And if for some reason it is a 3 year contract it's going to be more like $20 million a year not this 15 I see suggested as well.

I have be believe smart teams will not pay Odorizzi 15 million plus for more than 3 years. Once in his 6 year career has he average more than 5 2/3 of an inning. And his two with the Twin he has average less than 5 1/3. How can you justify spending that much when on average he is only going to pitch about half the game. It seems like a better idea to go out and get 3 relief pitchers at 5 - 6 million a piece and for about the same price you get more innings and pitchers that pitch more than once every 5 days.


#48 Mike Sixel

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:33 PM

I have be believe smart teams will not pay Odorizzi 15 million plus for more than 3 years. Once in his 6 year career has he average more than 5 2/3 of an inning. And his two with the Twin he has average less than 5 1/3. How can you justify spending that much when on average he is only going to pitch about half the game. It seems like a better idea to go out and get 3 relief pitchers at 5 - 6 million a piece and for about the same price you get more innings and pitchers that pitch more than once every 5 days.


Because gone are the days of starters going six innings most days. Go look at the list of starters on leader boards.... There aren't many you want more than Odo, and even less that will be available.... It's all about the QO. If there is none, he'll get fifteen a year, imo

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#49 JLease

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:34 PM

 

I've seen both here and elsewhere suggesting Odorizzi signing a 3 year contract. I don't see it happening, this is his one real chance to sign a relatively long, lucrative contract. I'm betting he gets a 5 year contract, though a 4 year one with an option at the end also seems quite possible.

Edit: And if for some reason it is a 3 year contract it's going to be more like $20 million a year not this 15 I see suggested as well.

 

I'd love to see some evidence on this one. yes, he may want a 5 year deal, but there's little in recent market trends to suggest that he's going to get it, especially after having a bit of a fade in the middle of the year and showing that he's not a guy who can pitch deep into games. I like the guy and support re-signing him, but going into his Age 30 Season he's never thrown 200 innings, and cleared 175 IP exactly once. He's due for a very nice raise this offseason, but $20M per? 5 years? It seems unlikely that's coming for the guy who was just dealt for Jermaine palacios. I'd be stunned if the AAV went over $17M

 

 

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#50 yarnivek1972

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:34 PM

I have be believe smart teams will not pay Odorizzi 15 million plus for more than 3 years. Once in his 6 year career has he average more than 5 2/3 of an inning. And his two with the Twin he has average less than 5 1/3. How can you justify spending that much when on average he is only going to pitch about half the game. It seems like a better idea to go out and get 3 relief pitchers at 5 - 6 million a piece and for about the same price you get more innings and pitchers that pitch more than once every 5 days.



What three relief pitchers that have had good seasons in EACH of the last two seasons are free agents?

I’ll hang up and wait for your answer.

#51 by jiminy

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:37 PM

 

I don't think the National are going to tear it down (already offered a 7 year contract to Rendon) but it will be interesting to see what the Cubs, A's, and Rockies do.

The A's are not tearing it down. They have an affordable, playoff-level roster, to whom they are adding Luzard, Puk, and Manaea, virtually free. They are like the Twins but with three low-cost ace pitchers already in the fold. They made the playoffs the last two years with a rotation of castoffs.Next year they are going to be monsters, without even straining their budget.

 

But most other teams would happily lower payroll if given young prospects in return. We are extremely well positioned to pick up a costly veteran in a salary dump. We could throw in a high-upside minor league pitcher like Duran or Alcala who they could sell to their fans as a better long-term investment in their rotation, which would probably be true, and we could get an ace. And we probably should, since our offense is ready now. Let's just hope it's not Archer redux.

 

The truth is we could afford Cole as a free agent, and two more good veterans.That 70M in unspent budget still would leave payroll well below 50% of revenue.They could afford to spend well more than that while making record profits.They socked away quite a lot during the losing years, claiming they were waiting for the competitive window to open to spend.Well it's open.Time to spend.

 

Adding a reliever or two might be wise too. Graterol should be in the minors developing as a starter.To compete sustainably they'll need a few pitching prospects to turn into underpaid aces.Hopefully he and Balazovic pan out, so when our lineup gets pricey and we start losing hitters, the rotation will provide enough cheap innings to stay competitive.And guys like Lewis, Larnach, Kiriloff, Rooker, and Javier can replace the hitters who hit free agency.


#52 Tomj14

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:38 PM

 

Because gone are the days of starters going six innings most days. Go look at the list of starters on leader boards.... There aren't many you want more than Odo, and even less that will be available.... It's all about the QO. If there is none, he'll get fifteen a year, imo

I understand the days are gone of going 6, what I am saying is the smart teams are going to figure out you don't pay Odo 19 million a year to go 5 innings and leave the rest of the game up to rookies, has beens and never will be's.

I assume they are paying good money to analysts to figure out what the right price is to pay for an inning of pitching, then figure out how to fill those innings in a budget. And paying Odo 118K an inning is probably not the best money spent.

And if they aren't paying somebody this I have back ground in Data and will happily accept the job.


#53 jz7233

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:40 PM

 

Our favorite team picked up 2 solid relievers at the trade deadline for little or nothing. They have enough prospects to get what many, including some of the national experts will view as good starters.

Are you sure? Is Dyson really a solid reliever?


#54 Tomj14

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:52 PM

 

 

What three relief pitchers that have had good seasons in EACH of the last two seasons are free agents?

I’ll hang up and wait for your answer.

Will Smith, Will Harris, Steve Cishek, and a few others. There are also others that may not have been great last year but have been pretty good in the past.

Also getting relief pitchers aren't only acquired in FA.

My point really was I think 19 million could be better budgeted then on a pitcher that pitches one out of five games and only give you 5 innings in that game.

 

I will say this, if they told Odo we will give you a QO, the expectation is that you average at least 6 innings and we don't care how many pitches it takes to get there. I would back that. Maybe him only pitching 5 innings isn't on him, I mean they only let him get to 100 pitches 9 times. Maybe that is on Rocco or the front office and if that is case, that completely justifies not giving him that type of money.

 

 

Edited by Tomj14, 09 October 2019 - 01:59 PM.


#55 jharaldson

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:01 PM

Something a little outside the box I would like to see is the Twins go after Yu Darvish on a trade.He ranked 7th among all starters in K% and 10th in xFIP.His ERA and FIP were inflated due to uncharacteristically high HR% which may be solved by leaving Wrigley and can help reduce his trade cost. he is down to 4Y/$81M on his contract which helps reduce the risk.  

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#56 yarnivek1972

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:04 PM

Will Smith, Will Harris, Steve Cishek, and a few others. There are also others that may not have been great last year but have been pretty good in the past.
Also getting relief pitchers aren't only acquired in FA.
My point really was I think 19 million could be better budgeted then on a pitcher that pitches one out of five games and only give you 5 innings in that game.

I will say this, if they told Odo we will give you a QO, the expectation is that you average at least 6 innings and we don't care how many pitches it takes to get there. I would back that. Maybe him only pitching 5 innings isn't on him, I mean they only let him get to 100 pitches 9 times. Maybe that is on Rocco or the front office and if that is case, that completely justifies not giving him that type of money.


None of those three are going to sign for $5-6 mil per year. More like $8-$10 mil per. So, your $ 19 mil gets you about 130 IP as opposed to 160 from Odo.
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#57 Tomj14

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:18 PM

 

None of those three are going to sign for $5-6 mil per year. More like $8-$10 mil per. So, your $ 19 mil gets you about 130 IP as opposed to 160 from Odo.

you're absolutely correct, you asked "What three relief pitchers that have had good seasons in EACH of the last two seasons are free agents?"

 

It was my bad to assume you meant three pitchers that have good seasons in EACH of the last two years that will sign for 5 - 6 mil per year, I have no idea how I could have missed that in your post.

 

I could have said Tyler Clippard, Craig Stammen,Yusmeiro Petit are three relief pitchers that have been pretty good and would more than likely cost less than Odo.

 

But then I probably would have missed that you were really asking for 3 relief pitchers that were good the last two years, that will accept the money and be smart for the Twins to sign.

 

Not my job to figure that out, that is for the high priced front office employees, I was suggesting they probably could get three guys (that average about 5 - 6 mi a year) for that cost to coverage more games and innings.

 

Edited by Tomj14, 09 October 2019 - 02:18 PM.


#58 Mike Sixel

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:15 PM

I understand the days are gone of going 6, what I am saying is the smart teams are going to figure out you don't pay Odo 19 million a year to go 5 innings and leave the rest of the game up to rookies, has beens and never will be's.
I assume they are paying good money to analysts to figure out what the right price is to pay for an inning of pitching, then figure out how to fill those innings in a budget. And paying Odo 118K an inning is probably not the best money spent.
And if they aren't paying somebody this I have back ground in Data and will happily accept the job.


I'll ask again.... Look at the leaderboards, and tell me who will be available that is better, that won't cost a lot more? And I said fifteen, or is that the difference here?

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#59 bighat

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:20 PM

I'd love to see a list of free agent starters that will be on the market. I know some of the big names - admittedly I haven't paged through the entire 3 pages of this thread to see if someone's posted them.


#60 MMMordabito

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:23 PM

None of this matters