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Front Page: Twins ALDS Game 2 Recap: Nothing Works, Twins Lose 12th Straight To Yankees

randy dobnak tyler duffey eddie rosario
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#141 Vanimal46

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:26 PM

I am over the moon happy with Baldelli and I am over the moon happy with Falvey and Lavine BUT...

IF ...after two games of do or die playoff baseball. No matter if those games produced wins or losses.

IF... you have stats that look like this.

Stashak 2 Games 1.2 innings
Romo 1 game 0.2 innings
May 1 Game 0.1 innings
Rogers 0 games 0 innings

You have a first time manager and a fairly young front office making a significant mistake.

The Twins are the only team in the playoffs utilizing the back end of their bullpen before they utilize the front end of the bullpen.

I'm not saying the results would have been different but when they turned to Stashak with a one run deficit in game one, and did so with all of Romo, May and Rogers available or even letting Duffey throw another inning. They didn't take into account the stark difference between Game one of the ALDS and Game 95 of the regular season.

The only thing I can think of... is that they tried to keep the bullpen fresh in anticipation of game two with Dobnak starting. So they tried to wing and a prayer through game one. Which was still close! Just to focus on game two instead.

Just a constructive criticism. THROW YOUR BEST ARMS... RIGHT NOW... Don't save them for tomorrow. There may not be a tomorrow as you just learned. Would you rather throw Romo and May with a 1 run deficit or a 7 run deficit.

Your save them for tomorrow plan just plain disappeared on you. So you end up choosing Stashak in a one run deficit and Romo and May in a 7 run deficit.


Concur. I wish they would have set the tone better in game 1. That should have been mission critical to win. Stashak was a head scratcher in a 1 run game. Putting in a depleted Gibson waived the white flag.

You can't prepare for the next day in the playoffs because there may not be a next day!
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#142 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:42 PM

Twins have no great starters. They had a six percent chance when Gibson came in. That made sense to me. The rest? We can second guess, but there aren't many good choices if you eliminate all but three RPs.....
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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#143 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:50 PM

I think we've seen both better talent and better performance.

I'm not so sure most managers wouldn't be more confident about winning with any of Paxton, Tanaka, or Severino as their starter as opposed to Berrios. No pitchfork here, but once again, the importance of true front line starters is evident.

I also think there's still a fairly decided talent advantage for NYY over the Twins, in virtually every phase of the game: rotation, bullpen, lineup, the edge home field offers, postseason experience, on-field game management. The whole nine yards. Again, no pitchfork at the ready here. Frankly, this team got there a year early IMO.

I'm not terribly upset by what's happened, just a bit disappointed that so many players, for whatever reason, have so far failed to step up. Our inconsistent Berrios failed to locate his breaking pitch. Dobnak threw it wide over and over and fell behind all-star hitters. Paxton spiked ball four in front of the plate and got guys like Cron to strike out instead of walk to first. Tanaka hit the corners and our pitchers did not.

But from my vantage point, even if our hitters take good, smart at bats and our pitchers attack the zone with better command and control and quality pitches that lives up to their best, the Yankees have a decided edge. They're simply a better team right now, even though the talent gap has closed.


They've been a much better team each and every time the two teams have played for 15 years. That's the reason they've beaten the Twins, with an assist provide by the home field. I don't buy into there being some mystique.


The better team shouldn't win every single game though.
If that were true, the best team in baseball would go 162-0 every year.

#144 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:53 PM

Twins have no great starters. They had a six percent chance when Gibson came in. That made sense to me. The rest? We can second guess, but there aren't many good choices if you eliminate all but three RPs.....


I'll take my chances with 6% every single time over whatever chance we had with Randy Dobnak starting a game in Yankee Stadium.
It also sends a message to your players that we don't waive the white flag just because we're down a few runs.

Baldelli setting the example of throwing in the towel in game 1 might have had something to do with the Twins hitters following suit after being down 8 early in game 2.

#145 Bandit34

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 05:10 PM

 

Bingo. Every baseball fan outside of New York City has been pulling for the Twins to be this year's story.

 

This was the equivalent to the dreaded 5 seed vs. 12 seed matchup in the NCAA tournament. Everyone - not just Twins fans - wanted to see Minnesota stick it to the Yankees. This was the upset everyone wanted to see happen. Even New York media outlets were saying this would be a knock-down, drag-out series.

 

The Twins have disappointed their own fans terribly. They've also drawn facepalms and eye rolls from baseball fans all over the country.

 

This has truly been an embarrassment on a national stage. If the Twins get swept, they should be ashamed of themselves and rightfully so.

Absolutely. In a real sense, this series has been a bit of an embarrassment to Major League Baseball. MLB really could have used a wild series between these two teams. I personally think they were counting on it. This was a dream series for MLB and we royally messed it up. And I think true fans of the game have a right to feel a bit cheated about it. I know Thomas looked upset. 

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#146 D.C Twins

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 05:35 PM

 

First off... This ain't over yet. If they win Monday... they play Tuesday... If they win Tuesday... They play Thursday. 

 

13 separate times the Twins have won three games in a row this year. 

 

Lots of talk about a difference in talent. The Yankees won 103 games, the Twins won 101 games. Whatever difference in talent you are all talking about, it amounted to 2 extra wins over the course of 162 games. 

 

Coming back from an 0-2 deficit in a DS has happened before. The Yankees came back against the Indians from 0-2 in 2017. 

 

2015...The Jays came back from 0-2 against the Rangers... That was the Bautista Bat Flip series. 

 

2012... The Giants almost didn't win one of their World Series because the Reds had them pinned 0-2. 2nd loss of that series for the Giants was a blow out, bigger than what we just experienced. The Reds made a big statement in game two and they made that statement in San Francisco. The Giants had to win 3 in a row in Cincinnati and they did. 

 

Losing the first two games sucks... It eliminates all margin of error and puts our backs firmly against the wall and it decreases our odds of advancing to horrible levels but... what happened yesterday was yesterday.

 

 

You put the uniform on and make some plays.:)

These are good thought in theory, but it matters how games are lost. The Twins are being overwhelmed in every aspect of the game....and I wouldn't count on the Yankees suddenly losing focus in the playoffs.

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#147 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 06:14 PM

Sounds to me like there is a “Twins never had a chance” strain of revisionist thinking going on—that I strongly disagree with.

If the Yankees were that superior to the 101-win Twins this year, then how many wins should the Twins shoot for next season to be on their level?

No way the Twins should have been swept this year. No way.

By the way, I went back to 2002 and calculated the Yankees postseason Win-Loss record and Win% since then. Anyone care to guess what that is?
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#148 Danchat

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 06:26 PM

 

Sounds to me like there is a “Twins never had a chance” strain of revisionist thinking going on—that I strongly disagree with.

If the Yankees were that superior to the 101-win Twins this year, then how many wins should the Twins shoot for next season to be on their level?

No way the Twins should have been swept this year. No way.

By the way, I went back to 2002 and calculated the Yankees postseason Win-Loss record and Win% since then. Anyone care to guess what that is?

I'd like to see the Twins rack up some wins on teams above .500, the total win count isn't quite as important since there's so many teams in the AL that are hoisting the white flag. The only two teams that the Twins had an above .500 record against that were quality opponents were Tampa Bay and Houston... which was ironically the other two teams in the playoffs.

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#149 birdwatcher

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 07:39 PM

 

The better team shouldn't win every single game though.
If that were true, the best team in baseball would go 162-0 every year.

 

 

True. 


#150 Halsey Hall

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 07:41 PM

I turned it off when they gave up the 7 spot the other night, and am almost afraid to watch tomorrow night, this is embarrassing.

he gone!


#151 David HK

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:33 PM

Welp....

 

You'd think this year, the script would change, or at least turn a page.

 

Nope. Yet another round of pathetic roll-over-for-the-mighty-Yanks. I can't think of a more appropriate adjective. This is just pathetic.

 

I'm not going to go on a litany, those aspects of mis-management and guys taking a giant step back under the hot lights have already been well-discussed. But count me as one more long-time fan whose head is exploding at Rocco's head-scratching decisions.

 

I'll only go this far: for Dog's sake, Jake O pitched for Tampa. He's been in tight division games in The Stadium countless times. Instead, we get a good story about the Uber-pitcher, and horrid results. Then, of course, to the rescue rides the same guy who struggled to put guys away THE DAY BEFORE. Wha.....?!?!? And we act as though it's a meaningless early-season warm-up series.

 

I gotta say, my impression of Dobnak's outing:

cool story Bro T

 

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#152 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 06:36 AM

 

These are good thought in theory, but it matters how games are lost. The Twins are being overwhelmed in every aspect of the game....and I wouldn't count on the Yankees suddenly losing focus in the playoffs.

 

Not really... What really matters is that all margin of error is now gone. They can't suffer a bloop hit now. 

 

The Reds destroyed, dismantled and out everything'd the Giants in San Francisco in 2012. 

 

The Giants survived it... this can happen again. The odds are against it because all margin of error is now gone... but, It will be a fresh set of zeroes tonight on the scoreboard and what happened on Saturday was yesterday. 

 

Win tonight, You play again on Tuesday... Win Tuesday... You play on again on Friday.

 

It's been done before. 

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#153 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 06:42 AM

Not really... What really matters is that all margin of error is now gone. They can't suffer a bloop hit now.

The Reds destroyed, dismantled and out everything'd the Giants in San Francisco in 2012.

The Giants survived it... this can happen again. The odds are against it because all margin of error is now gone... but, It will be a fresh set of zeroes tonight on the scoreboard and what happened on Saturday was yesterday.

Win tonight, You play again on Tuesday... Win Tuesday... You play on again on Friday.

It's been done before.


SF didn't get completely blown out both games though. Game 1 was close to the end.

#154 GCTF

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 06:54 AM

 

I'm done. I'm just soooo over this train wreck of a franchise. Life has too much to offer to waste anymore time or concern on this nonsense. They suck when they're bad and they suck when they're good. No more. Goodbye Twins. 

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Endut! Hoch Hech!

#155 OldManWinter1

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:08 AM

There is no reason for anyone to be embarrassed by performance of a team we want to succeed. Or, for that matter to be personally embarrassed over any conduct of others.

And, Baldelli is correct. This is a new group, they do not take any losing streak into this series.
Losing to a team you have often lost to is merely a disappointment, that there were breakdowns and they did not play their best.

Reusse is correct in his collumn, I think it has been a great and fun season for the Twins.

I am happy they did not get into a bidding war for a rental, or a player who may not be good in the future. I am glad they did not give up valuable prospects for short-term gain.
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#156 spycake

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:47 AM

I know Duffey's been great for us the last few months, but -- why turn to him first in game 2, the night after he threw 25 pitches in game 1?

 

Throwing Stashak, Gibson, and even Graterol the night before -- wasn't the whole point of that to keep Rogers, Romo, and May fresh for game 2? So you wouldn't necessarily have to rely on Duffey again right away?

 

Not to mention the whole "over-exposure" risk -- Didi's GS was on the 41st Duffey pitch seen by the Yankees within 24 hours.

 

Especially since the quick hook for Dobnak wasn't exactly a surprise -- it's just so weird that they'd plan on this kind of usage for Duffey, after game 1.

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#157 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:51 AM

 

SF didn't get completely blown out both games though. Game 1 was close to the end.

 

First... Finding an exact match for the conditions will be really difficult.:)

 

Second... It doesn't matter what happened in Game One or Game Two... They were both losses including a supposed soul destroying 9-0 (game two) loss with Madison Bumgarner (the future world series hero) getting tagged during the loss.

 

Game three is going to be a fresh set of zeroes on the scoreboard no matter what happened in the previous two games. 

 

Third... What the Giants didn't do is throw the back end of the bullpen in game one with a one run deficit. They were staring at 3 run deficit and they turned to George Kontos who had a 2.47 ERA with 44 K's in 43.2 innings over 44 appearances in 2012.

 

Sergio Romo was there in 2012 and he is probably wondering why we turned to Stashak.:) 

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#158 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:58 AM

 

I know Duffey's been great for us the last few months, but -- why turn to him first in game 2, the night after he threw 25 pitches in game 1?

 

Throwing Stashak, Gibson, and even Graterol the night before -- wasn't the whole point of that to keep Rogers, Romo, and May fresh for game 2? So you wouldn't necessarily have to rely on Duffey again right away?

 

Not to mention the whole "over-exposure" risk -- Didi's GS was on the 41st Duffey pitch seen by the Yankees within 24 hours.

 

Especially since the quick hook for Dobnak wasn't exactly a surprise -- it's just so weird that they'd plan on this kind of usage for Duffey, after game 1.

 

I worry this was some sort of script that they tried to follow.

 

Kind of like the offensive coordinator scripting the first 20 plays or something. 

 

No idea the reasoning... but... it happened for some reason. 

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#159 spycake

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 08:10 AM

 

Coming back from an 0-2 deficit in a DS has happened before. The Yankees came back against the Indians from 0-2 in 2017. 

Good point!

 

The 2017 Yankees came back from an 0-2 division series deficit... to beat the 100+ win AL Central champs... behind the solid pitching of Luis Severino... and the timely hitting of Didi Gregorious.... wait a minute, maybe this isn't the most encouraging comeback example for the 2019 Twins. :)

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#160 spycake

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 06:33 PM

This article highlights some of the obvious flaws in Baldelli's decision to turn to Duffey first in game 2:

 

https://www.fangraph...te-twins-again/

 

 

Unfortunately for the Twins, Duffey had thrown 25 high-stress pitches on Friday. Per Baseball Savant, his velocity was down ever so slightly, from an average of 94.1 mph with several pitches touching 95 in Game 1, to 93.4, with none above 94 in Game 2. His location was lacking as well, and he simply couldn’t finish off the Yankees’ hitters. Inheriting a bases-loaded, no-out jam, he got to two strikes on five straight batters and retired just two, letting in five runs.

 

 

Gregorius drew upon Friday night’s plate appearance against Duffy [sic], in which he struck out on a high fastball. “[J]ust thinking back to my at-bats that I had against him yesterday, and after I had two strikes, he threw me that fastball, so I was prepared for it this time after he threw me the curveball in the dirt. I was ready for it this time, so that’s why my reaction was like that.”

 




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