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BA Pre 2012 Prospect Rankings by Position

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#1 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 04:00 PM

http://www.baseballa...12/2613076.html

Started with RHP's today, will be interesting to see how we stack up over the course of this series.

Obviously we all know that pitching is not a strong suit of this organization, still pretty depressing to only have one prospect in the bottom half of the top 70. I would assume there will no Twins representation in the LHP segment, adding more salt to the wound. Hopefully this will be addressed in 2012 through the draft, a fully healed Kyle Gibson and continued development of the likes of Salcedo, Boyd, etc.

#2 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:06 PM

On Baseball America's list for Right-handed Pitchers (70), Left-handed Pitchers (40), Relief Pitchers (25) and Catchers (25), the Twins have a grand total of one player represented. I think it's safe to say the rest of the positions will be better represented (Parmelee, Rosario, Sano, Michael, Benson, Arcia, Hicks), but definitely not a "strong" farm system by any means.

#3 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:15 AM

On Baseball America's list for Right-handed Pitchers (70), Left-handed Pitchers (40), Relief Pitchers (25) and Catchers (25), the Twins have a grand total of one player represented.

I think it's safe to say the rest of the positions will be better represented (Parmelee, Rosario, Sano, Michael, Benson, Arcia, Hicks), but definitely not a "strong" farm system by any means.


I didn't realize they had already released LHP's, RP's and C's, can't find it anywhere on BA's site. I would have assumed at least Herrmann would have made the top 25 for catchers, he really raised his profile in the AFL, is relatively close to the majors and plays a pretty thin position.

#4 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:11 AM

They had it in the magazine that came out earlier this week. The rest of the positions will be in the next magazine in two weeks. I'll double-check catchers when I get home tonight, but I'm pretty sure Herrmann wasn't on it.

#5 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:31 AM

Nope, you're right (I've got the e-edition subscription). Herrmann doesn't show up in the top 25 catchers list, that's a deeper list than I pictured off the top of my head and I suppose being new to the position affects his ranking a bit. So as you pointed out, 1 guy out of 160 opportunities and that one guy has the ceiling of a #3 starter. I'm all about drafting the best player available over of drafting for need but they're really got to address this chasm. I guess the real shame is that so many attempts to address the pitching depth with early picks haven't worked out as hoped (Gibson, Bashore, Hunt, Gutierrez, Tootle, Rainville, Waldrop just to name a few)

#6 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:54 AM

I don't have the lists in front of me, but it would be interesting to see how many of the starting pitchers named are guys the Twins never had a shot at.

#7 Seth Stohs

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:15 PM

I wouldn't exactly give up on Gibson, Bashore, Gutierrez and Waldrop...

#8 Jim Crikket

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:26 PM

I don't have the lists in front of me, but it would be interesting to see how many of the starting pitchers named are guys the Twins never had a shot at.


I think that's a valid question because you don't see many "projected" top of the rotation guys available toward the end of the first round, where the Twins have largely drafted because of their relative success the past decade.

That said, the Twins aren't the only team with extended success lately. So, since I don't have the lists in front of me, I would ask how many pitchers the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies have on the lists. Those teams (and perhaps others) haven't likely been picking anywhere near the top of the draft for a while, either.
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#9 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

I wouldn't exactly give up on Gibson, Bashore, Gutierrez and Waldrop...


Never said I've given up on them, but you can't deny that so far they've all fallen short of expectations given their respective draft positions.
  • Gibson should be fine...as long as he fully recovers from TJ surgury
  • Bashore is going to be very old for his league in 2012 and has a lot to prove
  • Gutierrez has been awfully brittle, and hasn't demonstrated enough control to be successful at the Major League level
  • Waldrop should consider himself lucky if he can have a brief career as an MLB middle reliever, frankly with his inability to strike anyone out he seems a lot more like a AAAA reliever to me.
I hope all of these guys pull it off and have great careers, I'm just being what I feel is realistic. I also fully realize that prospects, especially pitching prospects have a very high attrition rate. It just really sucks that the Twins have had such a long stretch of not being able to draft/sign and develop anything more than middle relievers and role players for so long.

#10 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:39 PM

I think that's a valid question because you don't see many "projected" top of the rotation guys available toward the end of the first round, where the Twins have largely drafted because of their relative success the past decade.

That said, the Twins aren't the only team with extended success lately. So, since I don't have the lists in front of me, I would ask how many pitchers the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies have on the lists. Those teams (and perhaps others) haven't likely been picking anywhere near the top of the draft for a while, either.


Excellent point, here's my quick count of the number of prospects on this list so far from teams that have been consistently picking around or later than the Twins. (Working from home today and not feeling productive)

Rays:
- RHP: 3
- LHP: 3
- RP: 1
- C: 0

Rangers:
- RHP: 3
- LHP: 1
- RP: 2
- C: 2

Yankees:
- RHP: 1
- LHP: 1
- C: 3

Red Sox:
- RHP: 3
- LHP: 2
- RP: 2
- C: 2

Phillies:
- RHP: 2
- LHP: 1
- RP: 1
- C: 1

#11 gunnarthor

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:08 PM

Excellent point, here's my quick count of the number of prospects on this list so far from teams that have been consistently picking around or later than the Twins. (Working from home today and not feeling productive)

Rays:
- RHP: 3
- LHP: 3
- RP: 1
- C: 0

Rangers:
- RHP: 3
- LHP: 1
- RP: 2
- C: 2

Yankees:
- RHP: 1
- LHP: 1
- C: 3

Red Sox:
- RHP: 3
- LHP: 2
- RP: 2
- C: 2

Phillies:
- RHP: 2
- LHP: 1
- RP: 1
- C: 1


I'm not sure that's completely fair comparison either. The Rays had the #1 pick back to back as recently as 07 and 08. The only time they picked later than the Twins was in 09 and 11. The 2011 draft was also the first draft in a long time where the Twins picked before the Rangers. Yankees and Red Sox have financial advantages that the Twins generally did not have, esp with bonus in the draft.

I'm not trying to excuse the Twins, their last few draft groups have run into bad luck or just didn't pan out, but I'm also not sure this is a fair comparison of development and is rather just a snapshot in time that might not accurately reflect team developmental abilities. Phil Hughes, for instance, got a ton of hype but really hasn't had much more impact than Nick Blackburn (both had their rookie seasons in 07 and have, within margin of error, the same WAR). The main pitchers for those big market teams have generally not been developed prospects, with a few notable exceptions (Hamels #17 in 02 draft, Lester a 2nd rd pick that same year. Twins took Span at 20 and didn't have a shot for Lester in 2nd). Instead, those teams have spent hundreds of millions on Sabathia, Lee, Halladay, Beckett, Lackey etc.

#12 SDTwinsFan

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:51 PM

How many of those weren't ever drafted? My guess is the Yankees pitchers are more international, right? I am guessing similar for the Rangers as well.

#13 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:25 PM

[quote name='gunnarthor']I'm not sure that's completely fair comparison either. The Rays had the #1 pick back to back as recently as 07 and 08. The only time they picked later than the Twins was in 09 and 11. The 2011 draft was also the first draft in a long time where the Twins picked before the Rangers. Yankees and Red Sox have financial advantages that the Twins generally did not have, esp with bonus in the draft.

I'm not trying to excuse the Twins, their last few draft groups have run into bad luck or just didn't pan out, but I'm also not sure this is a fair comparison of development and is rather just a snapshot in time that might not accurately reflect team developmental abilities. Phil Hughes, for instance, got a ton of hype but really hasn't had much more impact than Nick Blackburn (both had their rookie seasons in 07 and have, within margin of error, the same WAR). The main pitchers for those big market teams have generally not been developed prospects, with a few notable exceptions (Hamels #17 in 02 draft, Lester a 2nd rd pick that same year. Twins took Span at 20 and didn't have a shot for Lester in 2nd). Instead, those teams have spent hundreds of millions on Sabathia, Lee, Halladay, Beckett, Lackey etc.[/

It doesn't appear that any of the rays post 2009 first Round picks are in this list.