Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

Front Page: REPORT: Twins Investigating Giants Over Sam Dyson Trade

sam dyson jaylin davis prelander berroa kai-wei teng
  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#41 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    What's His Velocity?

  • Member
  • 13,084 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 September 2019 - 02:07 PM

Making light of this is also sort of 'silly'. Saying that the Twins erred in pitching him right away as being the reason for his season ending is a real stretch, IMO.


Have no fear, it's just a bit on TD. People were literally saying him pitching on the same day he took a 2.5 hour flight was the reason his debut was terrible. The takes were HAWT and STRONG that day.
  • Blake likes this

#42 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 17,040 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 02:09 PM

 

The Twins are doing what they should do, and look to see if anything was wrong on the Giants side of the trade.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Giants had been on the receiving end, they would be doing the same.

 

It would be negligent on the part of all parties involved not to make sure everything was done in the proper manner.

Sure, although the language in the original story here definitely seemed to go beyond that due diligence.

  • Blake likes this

#43 SF Twins Fan

SF Twins Fan

    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Member
  • 633 posts
  • LocationNew York City, NY

Posted 25 September 2019 - 02:23 PM

Edited by SF Twins Fan, 25 September 2019 - 02:24 PM.


#44 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    What's His Velocity?

  • Member
  • 13,084 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 September 2019 - 02:34 PM


This will be the easiest non-tender decision in the off-season.
  • Blake, SF Twins Fan and SpicyGarvSauce like this

#45 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Cooperstown

  • Member
  • 6,538 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 03:23 PM

This will be the easiest non-tender decision in the off-season.


Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?

#46 mlhouse

mlhouse

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 731 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 03:26 PM

 

And they will be turned down.

 

Short of malfeasance by the Giants being uncovered, such a transaction would open a huge can of worms for the league going forward.

 

Players go to a new team under what I once heard (regarding a used car I bought) called a Texas Guarantee : if Dyson breaks in half after the transaction is complete, we get to keep both pieces.

 

Sure, but I think there was some malfeasance on the Giants part.And the Giants might think they will be found to have committed some malfeasance.

 

So, the Twins should negotiate a settlement and ask for Teng to be returned to our system.


#47 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Cooperstown

  • Member
  • 6,538 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 03:35 PM

Sure, but I think there was some malfeasance on the Giants part. And the Giants might think they will be found to have committed some malfeasance.

So, the Twins should negotiate a settlement and ask for Teng to be returned to our system.


If the Giants have reason to believe that they will be found to have committed malfeasance, they would be well advised to not make an offer that shows evidence of a guilty “conscience”. And if they are found guilty of malfeasance, returning one prospect will be the least of their concerns.
  • ashbury likes this

#48 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    What's His Velocity?

  • Member
  • 13,084 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 September 2019 - 03:38 PM

Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?


I would think so... Why do the Twins have to be on the hook for $6-8 million if he's out for the season?

#49 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Cooperstown

  • Member
  • 6,538 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 03:45 PM

I would think so... Why do the Twins have to be on the hook for $6-8 million if he's out for the season?


If they are, it would be the same reason teams are on the hook for a guy they signed to a contract if he gets hurt: it’s collectively bargained.

#50 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 17,040 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 04:04 PM

Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?


Yes, they can. You can't option or outright a MLB player while they are injured during the season, but you can release them anytime and you can absolutely non-tender them in the offseason (it's fairly common to nontender a pitcher who just had surgery).
  • Blake and Danchat like this

#51 Blake

Blake

    Super Duper Senior Member

  • Member
  • 7,145 posts
  • LocationBakersfield CA

Posted 25 September 2019 - 04:07 PM

 

Sure, although the language in the original story here definitely seemed to go beyond that due diligence.

Initially, I had the same reaction, after all, Twins fan bias, but, after thinking for a bit, realized I needed to take a bit a see what develops. 

 

Sort of a metaphor for the entire Twins season. :)


#52 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 7,898 posts

Posted 25 September 2019 - 04:16 PM

If they are, it would be the same reason teams are on the hook for a guy they signed to a contract if he gets hurt: it’s collectively bargained.


The league would be the worst negotiators in the history of economics if they did anything less than laugh hysterically at the proposition that teams be forced to sign an injured player to a contract (that's what tender means, in this context, "to tender a contract"), and theoretically be forced to do it 4 consecutive seasons to boot (if a Super 2 player were to suffer a career ending injury with 4 arbitration years remaining).

Of course they don't have to tender him a contract.
  • ashbury and 70charger like this

#53 Westcoast2

Westcoast2

    Elizabethton Twins

  • Member
  • 3 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 10:10 AM

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.


#54 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 17,040 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 10:55 AM

 

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

Doubtful. Starters generally have a more competitive market than relievers, which can necessitate a team commitment like Pineda's deal, and more importantly, shoulder surgery is very different from Tommy John surgery. It's much less predictable if and when Dyson will return to effective pitching.

 

Dyson will likely be looking at a minor league / incentive type contract for 2021.

  • jz7233 likes this

#55 SomeGuy

SomeGuy

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 395 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:06 AM

I think Dyson felt he could pitch through it and didn't tell anyone.


#56 amjgt

amjgt

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,611 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:45 AM

 

Doubtful. Starters generally have a more competitive market than relievers, which can necessitate a team commitment like Pineda's deal, and more importantly, shoulder surgery is very different from Tommy John surgery. It's much less predictable if and when Dyson will return to effective pitching.

 

Dyson will likely be looking at a minor league / incentive type contract for 2021.

 

Could be... but where is the point where the Twins (or any other team) would deem it an acceptable risk.

 

I'm sure Dyson doesn't want to go an entire calendar year without getting paid.

 

Sign him to: 

2020 - $2M

2021 - $3M

 

That's probably a little more than is necessary, but that probably gets it done on Dyson's side. At that point you're competing against all 29 other teams, so a little overpay (if you want him) will likely be required. 

 

You might get Dyson toward the tail end of 2020 and you'd have him for 2021. If Dyson gets fixed, then $5M is worth it. If he's not fixed, then you're lighting $5M on fire.


#57 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 17,040 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:07 PM

 

Could be... but where is the point where the Twins (or any other team) would deem it an acceptable risk.

 

I'm sure Dyson doesn't want to go an entire calendar year without getting paid.

 

Sign him to: 

2020 - $2M

2021 - $3M

 

That's probably a little more than is necessary, but that probably gets it done on Dyson's side. At that point you're competing against all 29 other teams, so a little overpay (if you want him) will likely be required. 

 

You might get Dyson toward the tail end of 2020 and you'd have him for 2021. If Dyson gets fixed, then $5M is worth it. If he's not fixed, then you're lighting $5M on fire.

 

Dyson would take that in a heartbeat. But no team would do it. Dyson's hardly a guy teams outbid each other for, as it is (see his modest trade return for 1.5 years of control). Heck, just the 40-man roster spot this offseason alone is probably too much of a cost given the very uncertain outlook for a late 2020 return (which would mean one less prospect to protect from the Rule 5 draft this winter).

 

Dyson's made $14 mil in his career to date, so I expect he'll be fine without a paycheck for the next year.


#58 howeda7

howeda7

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 1,841 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:10 PM

 

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

I wouldn't do that for a reliever. And isn't his injury the type that is very hard to recover from?


#59 Westcoast2

Westcoast2

    Elizabethton Twins

  • Member
  • 3 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 03:56 PM

Having watched him for a couple of years in the Giant's system, I would guess that I have too high a personal opinion on his value.Nevertheless, putting him on the 60 day IR list should eliminate the negative of having him on the 40-man.You still can protect that one, extra Rule 5 eligible player.

 


#60 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 25,416 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 26 September 2019 - 04:06 PM

 

Having watched him for a couple of years in the Giant's system, I would guess that I have too high a personal opinion on his value.Nevertheless, putting him on the 60 day IR list should eliminate the negative of having him on the 40-man.You still can protect that one, extra Rule 5 eligible player.

There's no injured list over the winter. 

  • spycake likes this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sam dyson, jaylin davis, prelander berroa, kai-wei teng