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Front Page: REPORT: Twins Investigating Giants Over Sam Dyson Trade

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#21 mikelink45

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:04 AM

It turned out to be a bad trade, but did we lose anyone who was going to make a difference for the Twins in the next two years?  

 

If I were the Twins I would simply go after SF paying Dyson's salary and close the books.

 

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#22 scottz

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:05 AM

Seems like it should be pretty simple to ask Dyson, "did you tell the Giants your shoulder hurt? tell us everything about that conversation." If he says anything like "they said not to worry about it" or anything else that dissuaded him from making a big deal out of it, then you have something to take to MLB for a third party to make some sort of judgment.

 

That said, the judgment isn't going to be "let's give the Twins their prospects back." That's not happening unless what Dyson tells them is they gave him a series of cortisone shots and other medical treatments and scans and none of that appears in his files. And if I had to wager my house, I'd wager that's not what Dyson will say.

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#23 AceWrigley

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:22 AM

If I'm the Twins, I'm discussing this with the League Office. If Rocco can detect that Odo is warming up a little weird and pulls him for precautionary reasons, how is it the Giants staff didn't have any idea Dyson was pitching for weeks with discomfort? I'm not buying it. I want compensation.

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#24 rdehring

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:22 AM

I don't see any problem with what the Twins did, assuming their medical staff did review whatever the Giants forwarded to them.When deals are made minutes before the deadline, a physical isn't practical.None of us has seen those records and don't know what they say.

 

And the Giants also probably aren't at fault, unless there was knowledge he was more than aching and didn't include it in the reports.  

 

Don't know what the league does in situations like this.Probably would be best if they could work something out between themselves and not get the league involved.Should they return one of the pitching prospects, I would be happy.


#25 spycake

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:50 AM

 

If I'm the Twins, I'm discussing this with the League Office. If Rocco can detect that Odo is warming up a little weird and pulls him for precautionary reasons, how is it the Giants staff didn't have any idea Dyson was pitching for weeks with discomfort? I'm not buying it. I want compensation.

Because what happened with Odorizzi is very rare? Because the Twins and Giants are different teams, with different staffs and cultures? Because Dyson and Odorizzi are different players, in different roles, and likely had different conditions that affected them in different ways? 

 

Seriously, we've seen TONS of players reveal injury only after a bad stretch of play. Why do we assume that Dyson must have reported soreness, or that the Giants must have detected it, during a stretch of 7 scoreless appearances?

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#26 spycake

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:51 AM

This is all so silly. We *know* players play through things all the time without telling their teams. It drives us nuts sometimes when we hear about it after they struggle (although sometimes I suspect it's used as an excuse in those cases, rather than being a direct cause).

 

It seems especially likely that players might withhold a condition when it appears to have no impact on performance. Dyson said it first started bothering him after the all-star break in Colorado. His stats with the Giants, beginning with that Colorado series right up to the trade:

 

7 G, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 7 K

 

How many MLB players would report a condition if those are the results they are getting while playing through it?

 

And what incentive would Dyson have to lie to cover for the Giants, then or now? Some of these accusations make zero sense.

 

That said, I understand if the Twins want to double-check the record, just to make sure -- player transactions are worth millions of dollars to them. But I'm doubtful they come up with anything meaningful, I'm highly doubtful that there was any shenanigans on the part of the Giants, and frankly it's not that big of a deal -- as good as his minor league season was, Davis didn't figure much into the Twins present or future plans.

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#27 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:19 AM

If I'm the Twins, I'm discussing this with the League Office. If Rocco can detect that Odo is warming up a little weird and pulls him for precautionary reasons, how is it the Giants staff didn't have any idea Dyson was pitching for weeks with discomfort? I'm not buying it. I want compensation.


Every player is playing with discomfort after about the third week of the season. That won't be nearly enough of a case for any compensation.
There'd need to be evidence that a medical procedure, or official diagnosis was omitted from his medical files.
It'd be absurd to expect teams to update a player's medical files everytime they are sore or uncomfortable.
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#28 insagt1

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:20 AM

With Buxton's future always up in the air, Davis most certainly did figure into the Twins future, particularly the way his second half went. while he didn't do anything with his September call-up, thats no big deal. The guy was in AA half the year and wouldn't have come to AAA had it not been for injuries. He was slated to go back to AA, but then he started hitting (in much the same way Arraez did) making it impossible to send him back down. The kid is a huge talent. Giants thought so too. I watched him play for 41 games, mostly with mouth wide open in awe. We all felt he was going to be a good insurance policy against Buxton. (we also mused that the Twins have a history of letting good CF'ers go!)

 

Shenanigans with the Giants? No one will ever know. I have felt from the start that he was damaged goods, whether the Giants knew or not. The player knew. You don't pitch as poorly as he did when he got here if there wasn't something wrong. And if he looked like that while in SF, Twins wouldn't ever have given him a sniff. The way he pitched here was indicative of someone who had something wrong...and it didn't 'just' happen when he donned our jersey.


#29 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:28 AM

 

This is all so silly. We *know* players play through things all the time without telling their teams. It drives us nuts sometimes when we hear about it after they struggle (although sometimes I suspect it's used as an excuse in those cases, rather than being a direct cause).

 

It seems especially likely that players might withhold a condition when it appears to have no impact on performance. Dyson said it first started bothering him after the all-star break in Colorado. His stats with the Giants, beginning with that Colorado series right up to the trade:

 

7 G, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 7 K

 

How many MLB players would report a condition if those are the results they are getting while playing through it?

 

And what incentive would Dyson have to lie to cover for the Giants, then or now? Some of these accusations make zero sense.

 

That said, I understand if the Twins want to double-check the record, just to make sure -- player transactions are worth millions of dollars to them. But I'm doubtful they come up with anything meaningful, I'm highly doubtful that there was any shenanigans on the part of the Giants, and frankly it's not that big of a deal -- as good as his minor league season was, Davis didn't figure much into the Twins present or future plans.

 

Pretty much this. Dyson is a Twin now too. I guarantee you they already know what Dyson told them. About the only chance something happens is if he happened to have an Xray or MRI done that wasn't given to the Twins to evaluate... 

 

and like SpyCake, I highly doubt it... If that did happen, then this will take off, but this report is likely just them making sure nothing happened and doing what any team would do in that situation... nothing more nothing less. 


#30 mlhouse

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:30 AM

The Twins should ask for Kai-Wei Teng back.  


#31 ashbury

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:50 AM

The Twins should ask for Kai-Wei Teng back.  

And they will be turned down.

 

Short of malfeasance by the Giants being uncovered, such a transaction would open a huge can of worms for the league going forward.

 

Players go to a new team under what I once heard (regarding a used car I bought) called a Texas Guarantee : if Dyson breaks in half after the transaction is complete, we get to keep both pieces.

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#32 wabene

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:59 AM

Carol, to address some of your concerns, I clarified in the story what we know about the Twins investigation into this matter. I think it's worth pointing out though, that there is nothing in Neal's story that suggests the Twins are moving on. Maybe they are. But all that is being reported is that they have investigated and not found anything yet.

Nice, now the cat is out of the bag, or the Squirrel as it were.
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#33 Puckett34

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:07 PM

 

If I'm the Twins, I'm discussing this with the League Office. If Rocco can detect that Odo is warming up a little weird and pulls him for precautionary reasons, how is it the Giants staff didn't have any idea Dyson was pitching for weeks with discomfort? I'm not buying it. I want compensation.

Hit dingers. Never bunt.

#34 KirbyDome89

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:22 PM

 

This is all so silly. We *know* players play through things all the time without telling their teams. It drives us nuts sometimes when we hear about it after they struggle (although sometimes I suspect it's used as an excuse in those cases, rather than being a direct cause).

 

It seems especially likely that players might withhold a condition when it appears to have no impact on performance. Dyson said it first started bothering him after the all-star break in Colorado. His stats with the Giants, beginning with that Colorado series right up to the trade:

 

7 G, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 7 K

 

How many MLB players would report a condition if those are the results they are getting while playing through it?

 

And what incentive would Dyson have to lie to cover for the Giants, then or now? Some of these accusations make zero sense.

 

I blame this on them pitching him immediately after getting off the plane following the trade....

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#35 spycake

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:33 PM

 

I blame this on them pitching him immediately after getting off the plane following the trade....

The Giants have launched a counter-investigation in which they will no doubt look at those flight logs for any records of turbulence.

 

In response, the Twins should interview the flight attendants and ask if Dyson disclosed any discomfort to them during the flight.

 

In the meantime, the two organizations should split custody of Jaylin Davis.

 

We'll get to the bottom of this yet! :)

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#36 ashbury

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:38 PM

In the meantime, the two organizations should split custody of Jaylin Davis.

"Your Honor, the Twins hazed me and physically abused me when I was with them. I want to go to the Giants. They don't beat anybody."

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#37 Number3

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:42 PM

 

Yes. Something is rotten here. Is it just Dyson? I mean, why wouldn't he bring it up? Did he just want to get out of San Fran for some reason? Something is fishy, if not rotten. Rotting fish, maybe.

What was fishy was the way he was inserted into a game almost immediately after traveling across the country straight to the park where the Twins were playing into a possible game deciding situation. I think his uniform name was done with a magic marker, That was a disaster and he has never really recovered.


#38 yarnivek1972

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:58 PM

What was fishy was the way he was inserted into a game almost immediately after traveling across the country straight to the park where the Twins were playing into a possible game deciding situation. I think his uniform name was done with a magic marker, That was a disaster and he has never really recovered.


Yeah, that CAUSED his shoulder injury. Okay.
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#39 Blake

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 01:16 PM

The Twins are doing what they should do, and look to see if anything was wrong on the Giants side of the trade.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Giants had been on the receiving end, they would be doing the same.

 

It would be negligent on the part of all parties involved not to make sure everything was done in the proper manner.

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#40 insagt1

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 01:56 PM

Making light of this is also sort of 'silly'. Saying that the Twins erred in pitching him right away as being the reason for his season ending is a real stretch, IMO. Asking for a prospect back is equally as unrealistic. End of the day, it has turned out to be a bad trade...and they do happen. Twins received nothing, at least not this year. Somehow, internally a few of the guys really stepped up (Littell, May, Duffey). And Romo while being an adventure out there has not been 'awful'.

 

I agree with the above post. Everyone is doing their job, even if nothing comes of it.

 

I am from Rochester, so naturally I and a few 1000 others were very unhappy losing Davis. And it was compounded by Dyson ending up being worthless this season. But thats the way it goes sometimes. Time to concentrate on what we do have and how we are going to get past round one (assuming we get there of course!)




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