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Front Page: Week in Review: Closing In

nelson cruz miguel sano randy dobnak jose berrios
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#21 joefish

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 10:25 AM

Mystery meat being served up the Playoff Special Menu. Maybe we get lucky. It could be big fun if we do. All arms and bats on deck.
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#22 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 11:39 AM

While Gibson was awful, I can't really blame him too much--I blame the Twins for thinking a guy can bounce back from ulcerative colitis in 10 days. Gibson should have been given the rest of the season off with the only mandate to eat as much healthy food as he can get his body right. Have him pitch on the last Sunday of the regular season, and see what you have there.

The Twins playoff bullpen is also going to be very interesting. Rogers, Romo, Duffey, and May are locks. With Berrios and Odo absolute locks to be the top two starters, that theoretically leaves you with 5 slots to cover two starters and 3 length guys. But if Littell and Brusdar are included, now you only have one spot, and since you need to count on at least 4 innings in Odo's start, and maybe 5 in both game 3 and 4, I have to wonder if the Twins carry 8 guys, not 7, as relievers. In this case, that would mean Dobnak, Smeltzer, Gibson, and Perez, with Thorpe an alternate if either Gibson or Perez is left off.


I don't necessarily disagree, but Gibson has to share some of that blame as well.
I doubt he told the team he was still not ready and they forced him to start anyway. He's a grown man and should be honest with the team, rather than thinking he has to be a tough guy and tell the team he can play when he can't.
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#23 SpicyGarvSauce

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 12:03 PM

 

While Gibson was awful, I can't really blame him too much--I blame the Twins for thinking a guy can bounce back from ulcerative colitis in 10 days.Gibson should have been given the rest of the season off with the only mandate to eat as much healthy food as he can get his body right.Have him pitch on the last Sunday of the regular season, and see what you have there.

 

The Twins playoff bullpen is also going to be very interesting.Rogers, Romo, Duffey, and May are locks.With Berrios and Odo absolute locks to be the top two starters, that theoretically leaves you with 5 slots to cover two starters and 3 length guys.But if Littell and Brusdar are included, now you only have one spot, and since you need to count on at least 4 innings in Odo's start, and maybe 5 in both game 3 and 4, I have to wonder if the Twins carry 8 guys, not 7, as relievers.In this case, that would mean Dobnak, Smeltzer, Gibson, and Perez, with Thorpe an alternate if either Gibson or Perez is left off.

 

At this point, there is no way the Twins can leave Stashak off the postseason roster. Omitting him from that was either an oversight, or something else. One of, if not both, Gibson and Perez will be left off. I am thinking Perez makes it, just as a 2nd lefty option in the pen.


#24 yarnivek1972

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 12:12 PM

I think it would be ironic if the Twins clinch the division in Detroit in front of Ron Gardenhire and Rick Anderson. Even moreso if they are both fired before the Twins leave town.

While no one (including their own FO) expected the Tigers to contend, I think the Tigers are finding out that Gardenhire is not good with young players. The Tigers have 3 players with more than 400 PA. They are all at least 27. The Twins have 3 guys under 27 with more than 400 PA. I don’t know where the young Tiger prospects are, but they haven’t playing in a season where they are going to lose over 110 games.

#25 VATwinsFan

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 12:39 PM

 

Gibson and Perez should be nowhere near the playoff roster. Their most recent starts were absolute disasters, against terrible teams.

Which probably means they will both be on the playoff roster.

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#26 BBAM

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 01:08 PM

 

I think it would be ironic if the Twins clinch the division in Detroit in front of Ron Gardenhire and Rick Anderson. Even moreso if they are both fired before the Twins leave town.

While no one (including their own FO) expected the Tigers to contend, I think the Tigers are finding out that Gardenhire is not good with young players. The Tigers have 3 players with more than 400 PA. They are all at least 27. The Twins have 3 guys under 27 with more than 400 PA. I don’t know where the young Tiger prospects are, but they haven’t playing in a season where they are going to lose over 110 games.

I think Gardenhire and perhaps the Pohlad's were to quick to bench, let go and just not work with the Latino players.  I also think they including Molitor played the "popular" players to get the fans who were just coming for the Target Field experience.Escobar was one of the first who made it impossible to keep him on the bench.Last year Dozier, Kepler, Mauer, Grossman and Morrison all reasons throughout the year to be on the bench.This year all the guys have gelled and push each other for a spot to play.The last few there was just a few open and with this front office and manager they seem to be giving playing time to those who deserve it.  

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#27 In My La-Z-boy

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 01:13 PM

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but Gibson has to share some of that blame as well.
I doubt he told the team he was still not ready and they forced him to start anyway. He's a grown man and should be honest with the team, rather than thinking he has to be a tough guy and tell the team he can play when he can't.

Looks like he is playing again on Wednesday. As cautious as this front office has been this year, I highly doubt anything is wrong with him right now. They wouldn't start him again if something were wrong. I don't get it except to say the front office is giving him every chance to make the post season roster. Therefore I blame his performance entirely on him. No excuses. He's playing, they agree to play him. Results are squarely on him and not his ailment. Also good for Kyle, I have not heard him blame his ailment. Why are we? 

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#28 yarnivek1972

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 01:23 PM

I think Gardenhire and perhaps the Pohlad's were to quick to bench, let go and just not work with the Latino players. I also think they including Molitor played the "popular" players to get the fans who were just coming for the Target Field experience. Escobar was one of the first who made it impossible to keep him on the bench. Last year Dozier, Kepler, Mauer, Grossman and Morrison all reasons throughout the year to be on the bench. This year all the guys have gelled and push each other for a spot to play. The last few there was just a few open and with this front office and manager they seem to be giving playing time to those who deserve it.


The shortstop and second baseman for Gardenhire’s first 4-5 years as manager were Rivas and Guzman. I think the lack of Latin players has more to do with the Twins not paying the price required to get good ones back in the day. Plenty of Latin pitchers. Romero, Rincon, Liriano and that guy that won a couple Cy Youngs. To name just a few.
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#29 insagt1

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

 

Game 2 of the ALDS isn't until the following Saturday (10/5) so he'd have plenty of rest between starts even if he goes on the last day of the season. 

But I think they really want him for game 1 unless Berrios suddenly turns into Justin Verlander 2019 in his last start.


#30 jkcarew

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 03:50 PM

 

I think it would be ironic if the Twins clinch the division in Detroit in front of Ron Gardenhire and Rick Anderson. Even moreso if they are both fired before the Twins leave town.

While no one (including their own FO) expected the Tigers to contend, I think the Tigers are finding out that Gardenhire is not good with young players. The Tigers have 3 players with more than 400 PA. They are all at least 27. The Twins have 3 guys under 27 with more than 400 PA. I don’t know where the young Tiger prospects are, but they haven’t playing in a season where they are going to lose over 110 games.

If the insinuation is that Gardenhire doesn't play the young players...I don't buy it. He'll play who is on the roster.

 

2019 PA from players 27 and under:

Tigers:4254

Twins:3836

 

2019 IP from players 27 and under:

Tigers:600

Twins:420

 

If the point is that he doesn't develop young players well...maybe. He definitely comes from the school where developing players isn't what the major-league manager does....and may be an odd fit for Detroit based on that. Thought he was one of the best in-game managers around back when he had talent with the Twins.


#31 h2oface

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 04:14 PM

"Willians Astudillo's (0-for-6) at-bats have become so uninspiring I had to finally pull the plug on the Willians Watch weekly tracker."

 

Thank you.

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#32 Vanimal46

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 04:49 PM

"Willians Astudillo's (0-for-6) at-bats have become so uninspiring I had to finally pull the plug on the Willians Watch weekly tracker."

Thank you.


I've got a feeling Astudillo will be an "obscure" jersey at Target Field in no time.

#33 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 04:51 PM

Writing is on the wall: Sano to play 1B in 2020.

 

Twins will need a 3B, to be in the mix with Marwin.

 

As to why Lewis is playing CF, could be a realization that SS is not his best position, or Buxton insurance, or someone is going to get traded for Starting Pitching.

 

With Kiriloff, Larnach, Wade, Kepler, Rosario, Buxton and Rooker -- we got a logjam even without Lewis.


#34 jimbo92107

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 07:27 PM

 

Gibson and Perez should be nowhere near the playoff roster. Their most recent starts were absolute disasters, against terrible teams.

With Perez it may depend on how well he absorbs Wes Johnson's coaching. When he does it right mechanically, Perez is great. If he can get that back, I'm fine with him.

 

Gibson, on the other hand, should not pick up another baseball until he is fully recovered from his terrible problem with ulcerative colitis. He looks gaunt, weak, and I am frankly worried that he might have some kind of physical collapse if he exerts himself, especially at a pro baseball level. 

The door opened. A woman screamed. Someday, my mom would learn to knock.

#35 h2oface

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 11:30 PM

 

Writing is on the wall: Sano to play 1B in 2020.

 

Twins will need a 3B, to be in the mix with Marwin.

 

As to why Lewis is playing CF, could be a realization that SS is not his best position, or Buxton insurance, or someone is going to get traded for Starting Pitching.

 

With Kiriloff, Larnach, Wade, Kepler, Rosario, Buxton and Rooker -- we got a logjam even without Lewis.

 

In the AFL.... with the redundant position players, it is more likely that he can, and still be in the game, and someone that can't is playing SS that game. It makes me nervous, because of injury possibilities, and these games mean nothing, other than getting more at bats to improve against good pitching. I am not a fan of it, myself. I would rather he be progressing and playing a different position under the Twins watch, than someone from another team.


#36 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 05:35 AM

But I think they really want him for game 1 unless Berrios suddenly turns into Justin Verlander 2019 in his last start.


He'd still be on normal rest to start game 1, if he starts Sunday.

#37 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 11:25 AM

 

At this point, there is no way the Twins can leave Stashak off the postseason roster. Omitting him from that was either an oversight, or something else. One of, if not both, Gibson and Perez will be left off. I am thinking Perez makes it, just as a 2nd lefty option in the pen.

 

Who's spot is Stashak taking?If the Twins are truly doing a bullpen game in Game 4, and knowing that 5 innings is about the most they can expect in games 2 and 3, while also knowing that their ace bullpen guys are not great when not rested, length becomes very important.You have to have at least 2 long guys in the bullpen, if not 3--at this point that's Perez, Gibson and Thorpe (assuming Dobnak goes in Game 3).If the Twins are carrying 12 pitchers (which has to be the maximum), the 9 in the bullpen would for sure include Rogers, Romo, Duffey, May, and Littell.Add in the 3 long guys above, and you're now at 8, so the choice would come down to Graterol or Stashak.I prefer Graterol, due to his upside, but I would not be opposed to Stashak.

 

Also, saying it's an oversight or something else is completely meaningless.For example, should you respond to this, you will either use your keyboard, or something else.


#38 SpicyGarvSauce

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 12:57 PM

 

Who's spot is Stashak taking?If the Twins are truly doing a bullpen game in Game 4, and knowing that 5 innings is about the most they can expect in games 2 and 3, while also knowing that their ace bullpen guys are not great when not rested, length becomes very important.You have to have at least 2 long guys in the bullpen, if not 3--at this point that's Perez, Gibson and Thorpe (assuming Dobnak goes in Game 3).If the Twins are carrying 12 pitchers (which has to be the maximum), the 9 in the bullpen would for sure include Rogers, Romo, Duffey, May, and Littell.Add in the 3 long guys above, and you're now at 8, so the choice would come down to Graterol or Stashak.I prefer Graterol, due to his upside, but I would not be opposed to Stashak.

 

Also, saying it's an oversight or something else is completely meaningless.For example, should you respond to this, you will either use your keyboard, or something else.

 

I love your responses - you take them so personal.

 

Gibson isn't being put on the roster over Stashak, and Perez & Thorpe aren't sure things either. In fact, Thorpe over Stashak would be a total mistake. Thorpe has only pitched 4 or more innings once over the last few months, so it isn't like he is able to give you a ton of innings either. Plus, he has been pretty bad in September.

 

Oh, and he isn't good against LHH either, which is where you could theoretically find a role for him.

 

Stashak isn't being left off the playoff roster. If you want to place a wager on this, send me a message.

Edited by SpicyGarvSauce, 24 September 2019 - 01:01 PM.


#39 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 01:58 PM

 

I love your responses - you take them so personal.

 

Gibson isn't being put on the roster over Stashak, and Perez & Thorpe aren't sure things either. In fact, Thorpe over Stashak would be a total mistake. Thorpe has only pitched 4 or more innings once over the last few months, so it isn't like he is able to give you a ton of innings either. Plus, he has been pretty bad in September.

 

Oh, and he isn't good against LHH either, which is where you could theoretically find a role for him.

 

Stashak isn't being left off the playoff roster. If you want to place a wager on this, send me a message.

 

Oh, not personal at all--at least no more personal than you make them.I'll agree that Stashak, in a vacuum is better than Thorpe or Gibson right now (although Thorpe's numbers are dragged down by one bad outing against Cleveland).However, he can't do what the Twins are going to need from bullpen options 6-9; provide multiple innings.While Thorpe has been over 4 only once, he's been over 2 innings 5 times--Stashak has been over 2 innings once, despite 7 more appearances.When you're likely to need 13-15 innings from your bullpen in Game 3-4 (which are on consecutive days, by the way), you will need 8-10 from the bottom 3-4 guys unless you want to pitch one or more of Rogers, Romo, Duffey, May, and Littell back-to back, and for the third time in either 4 or 5 days most likely.That makes having 3 guys that you ask to give you 3 innings nearly a must--putting Stashak ahead of either Gibson or Thorpe means Stashak will have to get stretched to two innings, and Graterol might have to as well (unless Graterol is left off for both Gibson and Thorpe).

 

By the way, Thorpe is actually better against lefties than Stashak; .804 OPS against .859 OPS, .354 wOBA against .366 wOBA, 11.1 k/9 against 7.6 k/9, 4.27 xFIP against 5.25 xFIP, 20% hard hit rate against 38.7% hard hit rate.If the goal is to get another guy to face lefties besides Perez, neither Thorpe or Stashak are good options, but Stashak is worse.

 

No need to make a wager, that interests me not at all.If I'm wrong, no big deal; I would just be really surprised if a team that will need a lot of length from its bullpen will elect for a 6th one inning guy (maybe 7th, depending on if he's behind Graterol) over a third length guy.




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