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#41 Jaykay

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:41 AM

What would the outfield look like if you're benching Rosario? Wade, Arraez, Lamarre? 

 

Rosario drives me nuts and I'm hoping he's traded this offseason but you can't roll with that lineup when you're trying to clinch a division. 

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#42 Jaykay

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:42 AM

I really don't understand the "he misread the ball" takes. Why is he trying to read anything?

 

Just hustle after you hit the ball. Buxton does it every time, It's not that hard. 

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#43 USAFChief

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:44 AM

 

Eddie misread the ball off the bat, then tried to make up for his error by trying to get to the base that he should have reached easily and was barely thrown out. Let’s not over-complicate this; we lost by two runs. If Eddie is safe...we maybe lose by one run?? To me, this was like a basketball player makes a turnover on offense and then tries to make up for it but makes a foul on defense. It happens. I’m not excusing lax play, but thefact that Steve Stone called him out means zero to me given that the Sox’s “star” Moncada makes stupid plays routinely; be a man and call out your own guys, Steve.

The score is mostly irrelevant, but in fact the score was 2-1 when Eddie got thrown out at third base to end the inning.

 

Steve Stone calling him out has nothing to do with any of this, by the way, other than it was a way to introduce footage, and as a side benefit, show that we're not the only ones who noticed.

 

For the record, Steve Stone is one of the absolute best announcers in TV today, knows the game extremely well, and regularly calls out the Sox when warrented. He's pretty funny as well. 

 

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#44 nicksaviking

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:50 AM

Admiring a HR that doesn't turn out to be HR seems pretty historically common. I could go either way on sending a message, except that a leader like Marwin Gonzalez didn't run out a grounder yesterday, (maybe his oblique hurt? dunno) which seems like a bigger faux pas to me. I don't know how you discipline Rosario and let a team leader off the hook.


#45 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:53 AM

See, to me, running out a routine grounder is false hustle, and guys do get hurt that way..... Interesting the different things that matter

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#46 etwink

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:55 AM

Cheers for that USAFChief. Totally get your points but we’ll have to agree to disagree, as our opinions aren’t lining up! No harm, no foul.
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#47 Tyler Roepke

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

I don't think this is just an Eddie thing, although he probably is the biggest hothead on the team. This is a Twins thing. They are all about having fun and keeping things loose. I like that, but there's a happy medium. Running around with a stuffed squirrel and all of these elaborate hand shakes and high fives are cool, but bat flips and watching your dong instead of running, not great in my opinion. The Twins themselves promote this kind of behavior. If you follow their instagram account they are always posting bat flips in slow motion and crap like that. It is not just an Eddie thing, it's a Twins culture thing.  


#48 Strato Guy

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:33 AM

 

See, to me, running out a routine grounder is false hustle, and guys do get hurt that way..... Interesting the different things that matter

If the play can be close, players should hustle! That said, on a routine infield grounder, there is almost no reason for a player to not run at about 90%. Injury is much more likely to occur when giving max effort. If a player cant run at about 90%, that is a problem. Defenses can and will make mistakes when they feel rushed. If a player is gutting it out in an important game, playing a game he might even play otherwise, that would be an exception to not running a grounder out.

 


#49 twinsnorth49

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:53 AM

 

BS. I like guys that have fun. But he admired that hit all the way down the line. This is a very specific example.

Speaking of BS. Guys admire hits they think are going over the fence all the time and then don't. He should have just stopped up at 2nd. 

 

And the comments being made aren't only about this specific incident, neither are mine. 


#50 nicksaviking

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:58 AM

 

See, to me, running out a routine grounder is false hustle, and guys do get hurt that way..... Interesting the different things that matter

 

I'm not the type to admonish either action, though I guess if I had to weigh the two offenses, I'd put the not hustling on a grounder as more of a no-no if only because of intent. It's not like if someone told Rosario the second the ball left his bat that it was going to hit the wall he wouldn't have sprinted out of the box, I'm sure he would have been all smiles had he gotten a triple.

 

On the other hand, conceding a grounder is willfully choosing not to take the chance that the fielder may bungle the play, which isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

 

But again, I'm not a hardliner on this stuff, I've come to accept both as atypical but still common elements of the game and I'd do little more than roll my eyes.

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#51 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:12 AM

I'm not the type to admonish either action, though I guess if I had to weigh the two offenses, I'd put the not hustling on a grounder as more of a no-no if only because of intent. It's not like if someone told Rosario the second the ball left his bat that it was going to hit the wall he wouldn't have sprinted out of the box, I'm sure he would have been all smiles had he gotten a triple.

On the other hand, conceding a grounder is willfully choosing not to take the chance that the fielder may bungle the play, which isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

But again, I'm not a hardliner on this stuff, I've come to accept both as atypical but still common elements of the game and I'd do little more than roll my eyes.


All true. Like I said, I was good no matter what they did here. I'd like more fun, in general. But not fun at the expense of a play. He really should have just stopped given what went before.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#52 twinsnorth49

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:19 AM

My bet is most people would have barely said a thing if he just stopped at 2nd. 


#53 yarnivek1972

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:23 AM

C'mon guys. Some of you must have played some level o competitive ball.

Disregard the announcer. This is the wrong play to prove a point. This was not some triple out of the box down the line. It's a sure double or an out. He did not kick his gears on for 3rd until the janky bounce of the wall.

It was a high fly. If he busts out of the box he's decelerating into second by the time he sees the bounce off the wall anyway and the play, out or safe, looks very much the same. This isn't non hustle. This was trying to take an extra base and Engel caught him steeling.

If you want to bag on Rosario, question the decision to try for third. I won't however. He has always been and aggressive base runner and it is part of his style of play that I very much enjoy watching.


If you watch the replay, you will notice that at no time until he has committed to third does he look in the direction of the base coach. I have a big problem with that. We, as fans, are certainly within our rights to question whether the judgement of the base coach is better than the player. That is not a right the player has.
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#54 SockNet

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:07 PM

I agree it is appropriate to question his judgement. While the play is in front of him most runners will react to the play and not pick up the coach until his back is away from it. At that you may or may not be to far committed to get back.

I think it’s unfair to question Rosario’s hustle for treating a double like a double. For fans to expect full go 100% of the time is 100% unrealistic. These guys are beat up over the season.

I feel there should be a SABR graph that shows the reality of hustle where hustle is greatest at a 50% hit probability an falls the closer it gets to either end of the spectrum.

Eddie not hustling would have been getting thrown out at 2nd or having a single.

Also, our 3rd base coach has done nothing to inspire confidence in his judgment.

#55 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:45 PM

 

If you watch the replay, you will notice that at no time until he has committed to third does he look in the direction of the base coach. I have a big problem with that. We, as fans, are certainly within our rights to question whether the judgement of the base coach is better than the player. That is not a right the player has.

I'm no expert here, but if I were coaching my Little League team again, I would tell my players that once they hit the ball to run as fast as they can around the bases until they see the ball be caught, or they are tagged out or forced out at a base and called out by an ump, or see the ball go over the fence, or go foul, or until their first base coach or their third base coach tells them to stop running. I know many of you posters here at TD know more about baseball than I do...so please tell me where I'm wrong in my advice to my young players who are learning the game. And if I am not wrong in my advice to my young players, then was Eddie Rosario wrong in the way he went from the batter's box to first base on the play in question?

Edited by tarheeltwinsfan, 20 September 2019 - 01:14 PM.


#56 wsnydes

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:55 PM

 

My bet is most people would have barely said a thing if he just stopped at 2nd. 

That's probably true, but that's what he should have done.And he wouldn't have been out. That's really the issue here. He was out because of his lack of hustle.

 

I'm also sure there would be plenty that call him out for not hustling immediately turning that double into a triple in a key spot too. We're a fickle bunch, sports fans.

Edited by wsnydes, 20 September 2019 - 01:01 PM.

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#57 SockNet

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:58 PM

How do you treat your job? Everyone reading and posting on this from their cube is totally loafing it to first.

If you’re ‘balls to the wall’ all the time you will burn out or get hurt. These guys have to make it through a taxing season. Expend energy when necessary. Conserve it when possible.

Edited by SockNet, 20 September 2019 - 01:47 PM.


#58 yarnivek1972

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:09 PM

I'm no expert here, but if I were coaching my Little League team again, I would tell my players that once they hit the ball to run as fast as they can around the bases until they see the ball be caught, or they are tagged out or forced out at a base and called out by an ump, or see the ball go over the fence, or go foul, or until their first base coach or their third base coach tells them to stop running. I know many of you posters here at TD know more about baseball than I do...so please tell me where I'm wrong in my advice to my young players who are learning the game. And if I am not wrong in my advice to my young players, then was Eddie Rosario wrong in the way he went from the batter's box to first base on the play in question.


One isn’t going to know if the base coach is telling him to stop if he isn’t looking at him. It also seems to me that one is going to be able to run faster looking forward than backward.

#59 yarnivek1972

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:13 PM

I agree it is appropriate to question his judgement. While the play is in front of him most runners will react to the play and not pick up the coach until his back is away from it. At that you may or may not be to far committed to get back.

I think it’s unfair to question Rosario’s hustle for treating a double like a double. For fans to expect full go 100% of the time is 100% unrealistic. These guys are beat up over the season.

I feel there should be a SABR graph that shows the reality of hustle where hustle is greatest at a 50% hit probability an falls the closer it gets to either end of the spectrum.

Eddie not hustling would have been getting thrown out at 2nd or having a single.

Also, our 3rd base coach has done nothing to inspire confidence in his judgment.



As soon as Rosario starts his maneuver to round the bag (some 10-15 feet before reaching it) the play is now BEHIND him. That’s when he should be looking at the coach. But he doesn’t. He’s looking at right field the entire time until he passes the bag and then puts his head down. Like I said earlier, I doubt he ever saw the coach.
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#60 insagt1

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:19 PM

One person mentioned it...Puig. He's another one who marches to his own drummer, but he also hits a ton and often in the clutch. Machado drove us O's fans nuts with his lack of hustle and apparently it continues to some extent.

Doyou bench him now and jeopardize all the rest of the team in the heat of a pennant race? No. Does someone with authority sit him down and read the riot act? And one or two of his peers as well? Yes. Absolutely...just like Puig's teammate did.

 

Lack of hustle is not good for the sport. But you will continue to see it. We take the good with the bad when a pennant is on the line unfortunately. We've already seen what damage Pineda's stupidity has cost the team. Hopefully Eddie matures. Maybe hi will, or maybe this is who he is and Twins have to decide whether he's good for the organization or not.




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