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Front Page: Twins Game Recap (9/18): Twins’ Offense Absent Against Chicago Bullpen Game

jake odorizzi eddie rosario cody stashak brusdar graterol fernando romero
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#21 twinsnorth49

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:34 AM

Graterol sure seems easy to hit. Doesn't seem the heat has enough movement. Plus, were is the 100mph stuff we heard about? Has he just dropped some velocity since the minor league innings?


He was regularly hitting triple digits in the most recent Cleveland series, with some sink. Might not have had the best feel for his pitches last night or he’s still working through being a big leaguer. He is 21 after all.
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#22 TwinkieTownKiller

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:36 AM

 

Graterol sure seems easy to hit. Doesn't seem the heat has enough movement. Plus, were is the 100mph stuff we heard about? Has he just dropped some velocity since the minor league innings?

He literally hit 102 a few days ago. He's had a couple games where he didn't get a lot of swinging strikes, but he's 21 years old. We saw him when he was on against Cleveland and he was unhittable. 

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#23 stringer bell

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:38 AM

In today's game, 100 mph doesn't make anyone unhittable. There are far too many guys that hit 98+ on a regular basis. I'm still not sure that Gratoral should be on the prospective postseason roster. 

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#24 IndianaTwin

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:50 AM

Yes he did. He stood at home plate no less than 2-3 seconds watching a fly ball that was nowhere near a no doubter. I feel pretty confident that if he runs out of the box immediately, he's into third easily despite the great throw. It's easy to say that it didn't matter because we gave up another run the next inning, but it gave the momentum away when we really only had it for a few seconds.


Their CF made a great play, both in tracking down the bounce and with the throw. But I also concur — if he’s running from the box, it’s a standup triple.

The Sox announcers have generally gushed about the Twins the last two nights, but Rosario has been the exception. Steve Stone has called him out a couple times and let him have it pretty good on this particular play.
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#25 Puckett34

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:00 AM

 

I know even a 4 game lead with 10 to play 'should' be safe...but it sure doesn't feel safe to me. 

I'm feeling the same way. The whole 2009 Twins that were 3 games back with 3 to play is creeping in to my head.

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#26 Only Here in Negative

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:32 AM

 

 

 

Kinda feels like watching spring training games since the Cleveland series. Nothing is clinched, but the team fielded, the pitching selected, is like it doesn't matter. I think that is pretty arrogant. Nothing is a given. To treat it as such can have disasterous consequences. I just have to not think about these hitters facing Houston's starters, or both Houston or New York hitting against our pitchers after watching these last 5 games. It would be much better if they clinch before they seemingly pretend they have. The Twins are awfully lucky to have won as many as they have.

 

I hope Baldelli knows how to chew somebody out. You cannot make the 3rd out at 3rd. Not ever. And especially not in the bottom of the 8th and down 2 runs. No excuse. No excuses. 

 

1.) Even if the Clevelanders go 10-0 the rest of the way, the Twins win going 7-3 against the Royals and Tigers. If Cleveland goes 8-2 (still hard given the Nationals will care and the Phillies are a decent team), the Twins need to go 5-5. Its not arrogant, its smart to sit guys who are banged up.

 

2.) The pitching has been bad? No way, they've been pretty solid. Odo and Berrios looked really good. The pen looks to be solid too. They dominated in Cleveland and the guys who have been hit this series have been regression to the mean (May) or not likely to be on the playoff team but pitching because its the 12th (Harper). Perez hasn't even been that bad. Will we be confident in the playoffs with him? No. Is he capable of shutting down a team on a given day? Yeah. Buy some antacids Twins fans.

 

3.) That's harsh on Rosario. After the game, Rosie said he didn't see the CF coming over. That's a split second decision made by a runner coming around second on a play that he can't fully see because he already turned second. Not all CFers come over to right at such a shallow angle on that, its more typical that they would be back at the fence too. The ball came off the wall right back to a guy running the opposite way as the throw. And it still took a perfect throw. Its not ideal to get the third out at third but I think in this situation, it's not that bad of a call. Rosario is an aggressive player and that has helped and hurt the Twins. This one isn't particularly boneheaded - equal parts unlucky and overly aggressive. I don't mind the latter in a game where the Twins needed a bit of a spark after being shut down the first five innings.

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#27 Only Here in Negative

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:34 AM

 

It definitely should have, but he played little to no outfield in the minors and it's hard to blame the kid. I'm sure it's something they work with him on in the offseason, but I doubt we see him out there too often.

 

They should work on him in the offseason though. If he doesn't hit .350 going forward, he may get pushed out of the infield and into a utility role. His metrics at 2B are below average and pretty awful at SS and 3B. Being able to play a decent LF would help his career longevity. 

 

Of course he could make that a moot point by continuing to hit .350 or developing pop.

 

But agreed that he's not an OF and its because Buxton/Kepler are injured that he's even out there. Jake Cave is not a competent CFer either.

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#28 SomeGuy

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:39 AM

The Cleveland/Philly series starting Friday should be fun to watch.As of now Cleveland Wild Card elimination number is 10 and Phillies is 9. Two teams desperately needing every win.

 

Washington has lost ground in their bid to secure the 1st wildcard spot.Potentially setting up another important series when Cleveland travels there.

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#29 Only Here in Negative

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:39 AM

 

 

 

Did Rosario admire his double a bit too long out of the box? I get the sense that he did, watching it, but I don't want to let my assumptions get the better of me. If he runs hard right away, he gets to third just fine.

 

Yes he did. He stood at home plate no less than 2-3 seconds watching a fly ball that was nowhere near a no doubter. I feel pretty confident that if he runs out of the box immediately, he's into third easily despite the great throw. It's easy to say that it didn't matter because we gave up another run the next inning, but it gave the momentum away when we really only had it for a few seconds.

 

You need to watch the replay. He didn't stand at home for 2-3 seconds admiring his shot. He certainly didn't sprint out of the box (and he should) but he was moving up the line almost immediately.

 

It is true that if he sprints, he ends up on 3rd. But I don't think you need to rip him for it. Rosario seems like the kind of guy where being caught at 3rd is enough to reinforce that lesson anyways. 

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#30 twinssouth

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:48 AM

Graterol sure seems easy to hit. Doesn't seem the heat has enough movement. Plus, were is the 100mph stuff we heard about? Has he just dropped some velocity since the minor league innings?




MLB Gamecast last night was calling Graterol’s FB a sinker because of the movement. When he gave up the homer, his pitch sequence was

98.2 sinker, fouled off
98.9 sinker, fouled off
91.9 Changeup, Homerun Now, if the Foul offs were late, the batter (I believe Collins) caught up to the Changeup and clobbered it. 2 things: I blame Castro for calling that pitch. Graterol had the hitter on the ropes. Should have finished him off with that nasty slider of his of which he was hitting 89 to 90. Second, Graterol this off season will need to work on his Changeup


The next batter, Gamecast clocked one of his Sinker/FB at 100


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#31 Only Here in Negative

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:52 AM

 

In today's game, 100 mph doesn't make anyone unhittable. There are far too many guys that hit 98+ on a regular basis. I'm still not sure that Gratoral should be on the prospective postseason roster. 

 

1.) It's super weird watching him. Sometimes there seems to be a ton of movement and other times he's straight as an arrow and you're right, guys can catch up to that.

 

2.) More and more I think that Graterol is going to be more of an end-of-year guy if he's a starter next year. That inconsistency is not weird for a young guy. I'd like to see him get that shot, even if it hurts next year's team a bit. If he can get movement on that pitch, he can be a front end starter.

 

3.) Depends how many pitchers the Twins take. Injuries to Adrianza and Buxton might mean the Twins only take 12 position players. The regular nine with Gonzo replacing Buck, Schoop, Castro, and Cave. I just don't see much point in a Torreys or Miller or Wade and though Astudillo is a fun story, he hasn't hit well this year and a 3rd catcher seems pretty useless in the division series. That would leave 13 spots available for pitchers. Berrios, Odo, Perez, Gibby, Rogers, Romo, Littel, Duffey, and May seem given for nine. Thorpe and Smeltzer have earned it for 11. So you're looking at Dobnak, Stashak, and Graterol for two spots. I like all three but Graterol might be the wild card in there and has the most upside. I'd bet on Dobnak and Graterol?

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#32 Only Here in Negative

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 07:58 AM

 

Agreed Chief, I have another.  I Don't want Cruz to get hurt, but he seemed to not go hard to 2nd on Rosie's soft base hit, that took a while for the RFer to get there.  I think he has 3rd standing up if he's running hard.

 

I just watched the replay and he seemed to be running about as fast as he does. The RF got to that ball quickly. That said, it is Daniel Palka. I (and a quick Google search) don't associate him with a strong arm. Probably a pretty close play at third.

 

Also worth noting that the ball was almost caught by a diving 2B. Cruz likely was running straight to 2B to take away a force and couldn't take that slight parabolic path to third you can take on a sure hit. That might explain it?


#33 USAFChief

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:01 AM

 

You need to watch the replay. He didn't stand at home for 2-3 seconds admiring his shot. He certainly didn't sprint out of the box (and he should) but he was moving up the line almost immediately.

 

It is true that if he sprints, he ends up on 3rd. But I don't think you need to rip him for it. Rosario seems like the kind of guy where being caught at 3rd is enough to reinforce that lesson anyways. 

Rosario got thrown out at third, with 2 out, in a one run game. 

 

It's inexcusable, and that's ignoring the fact he sat at home plate admiring his "shot."  

 

Bad play is bad play, and it's ok to point it out.

 

 

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#34 insagt1

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:03 AM

Seems to be little love for Astudillo on these boards. We can't just look at him as a '3rd catcher'...he is a valuable replacement almost anywhere...unlike Castro, who is only a catcher and right now someone who can't hit a lick. With Garver probably getting the call every game in a 5 game series, who is more valuable as an 'extra'? Someone who can still catch, AND play other positions AND who rarely strikes out...or someone who is uni-dimensional and who has become an automatic out (with a ton of k's). While Castro defensively is decent, is he REALLY that superior to Astudillo behind the plate, as to make a huge difference?

Astudillo is more than a fun story....he is a valuable utility player and IMO much more useful in a short series than the slumping Castro. I also think he is more valuable than Cave, who has also reverted back to not hitting.

Just my opinions of course.


#35 USAFChief

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:05 AM

 

Seems to be little love for Astudillo on these boards. We can't just look at him as a '3rd catcher'...he is a valuable replacement almost anywhere...unlike Castro, who is only a catcher and right now someone who can't hit a lick. With Garver probably getting the call every game in a 5 game series, who is more valuable as an 'extra'? Someone who can still catch, AND play other positions AND who rarely strikes out...or someone who is uni-dimensional and who has become an automatic out (with a ton of k's). While Castro defensively is decent, is he REALLY that superior to Astudillo behind the plate, as to make a huge difference?

Astudillo is more than a fun story....he is a valuable utility player and IMO much more useful in a short series than the slumping Castro. I also think he is more valuable than Cave, who has also reverted back to not hitting.

Just my opinions of course.

The slumping Castro has an OPS over 100 pts higher than Astudillo.

 

He isn't even a fun story anymore.

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#36 Mike Sixel

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:10 AM

You need to watch the replay. He didn't stand at home for 2-3 seconds admiring his shot. He certainly didn't sprint out of the box (and he should) but he was moving up the line almost immediately.

It is true that if he sprints, he ends up on 3rd. But I don't think you need to rip him for it. Rosario seems like the kind of guy where being caught at 3rd is enough to reinforce that lesson anyways.


What I've read on other sites is that he did stand around and admire it.....
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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#37 stringer bell

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:10 AM

Neither one of those guys is hitting much right now. I prefer Castro to the Turtle as the second catcher. It would be nice if some of the guys who are scuffling (Cron, Castro and to some extent Cruz and Cave) picked it up in the last 10 days. Combine that with getting Adrianza, Cron and Kepler healthy and the Twins have a very nice offense.

 

 

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#38 Linus

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:13 AM

More sloppy baseball which seems to be frequent. I really hope Rocco is addressing this behind the scenes. This about the tenth time this year that we got thrown out because “of a perfect throw”. There is no excuse for Rosario on that play. You stop at second-going to third gains you practically nothing. Plus Sano was on deck
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#39 Bandit34

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:25 AM

 

1.) Even if the Clevelanders go 10-0 the rest of the way, the Twins win going 7-3 against the Royals and Tigers. If Cleveland goes 8-2 (still hard given the Nationals will care and the Phillies are a decent team), the Twins need to go 5-5. Its not arrogant, its smart to sit guys who are banged up.

 

2.) The pitching has been bad? No way, they've been pretty solid. Odo and Berrios looked really good. The pen looks to be solid too. They dominated in Cleveland and the guys who have been hit this series have been regression to the mean (May) or not likely to be on the playoff team but pitching because its the 12th (Harper). Perez hasn't even been that bad. Will we be confident in the playoffs with him? No. Is he capable of shutting down a team on a given day? Yeah. Buy some antacids Twins fans.

 

3.) That's harsh on Rosario. After the game, Rosie said he didn't see the CF coming over. That's a split second decision made by a runner coming around second on a play that he can't fully see because he already turned second. Not all CFers come over to right at such a shallow angle on that, its more typical that they would be back at the fence too. The ball came off the wall right back to a guy running the opposite way as the throw. And it still took a perfect throw. Its not ideal to get the third out at third but I think in this situation, it's not that bad of a call. Rosario is an aggressive player and that has helped and hurt the Twins. This one isn't particularly boneheaded - equal parts unlucky and overly aggressive. I don't mind the latter in a game where the Twins needed a bit of a spark after being shut down the first five innings.

I respectfully disagree. You ALWAYS make sure to clinch before sitting anyone. Disasters are the name of the game in baseball. Almost every year, something really crazy happens. 2006, for example! It looked for all the world that nothing could stop the Twins that year. Out of absolutely nowhere, the A's swept us in the divisional series. Then, if we thought it couldn't get any crazier, the Tigers, who we had just defeated for the division title, sweep the A's. The Royals could easily do big time damage against the Twins these last 7 games against us. It is a real possibility. I sincerely hope that Baldelli is not going to rest any players. We need them more than ever right now. 

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#40 Only Here in Negative

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:29 AM

 

What I've read on other sites is that he did stand around and admire it.....

 

Go watch it on MLB.com. He didn't sprint out of the box but he was getting moving right away. This wasn't a 2-3 second stand around. By the time it landed he was around first.




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