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Front Page: Will Minnesota Get Raided This Off-Season?

daniel adler jeremy zoll james rowson rocco baldelli dave dombrowski
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#41 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:47 AM

 

It honestly was just meant as a joke but apparently fell flat. Calling a one year old baseball fan "champ" just seemed kind of funny to me and I didn't intend for it to have a negative tone.

I understand. How about those Twins. : :)   


#42 twinkiesfan11

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:50 AM

With a little luck Falvey and Levine....


This would be a terrible outcome that would probably set the organization back years, how would this be a positive? It took a few years but Falvey and Levine’s efforts to upgrade the front office and player development staff, change the culture and fully integrate analytics clearly paid off organization wide this year. Imagine what another year could bring!

Edited by twinkiesfan11, 11 September 2019 - 09:51 AM.

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#43 Rosterman

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:33 AM

I'm hoping that NOW Falvey and Levine will have free reign. After being hampered by keeping Molitor, as well as working with inherited players, the team has now created a management structure in the front office that SHOULDN'T LOSE ANYONE YET, as well as putting together a field staff, minor league system organization, and the beginnings of players that they feel will mesh as the Twins future continues.

 

2019 has been a unique year. The division looked a tad weak, with the Indians being in a beatable position. The Indians have proven to be more than beatable, suffering their own injuries, but still managing to cobble together a highly competitive team. The front office made some fine signings with eyes towards keeping the Twins competitive, but the team broke out strong, moreso that possible trade chips to further improve a team on the rise ahd to remain as the team hit a highpoint. If the Twins were runners up, no doubt they would've explored more extremes to trading pieces like Gibson, Castro, Pineda, Schoop and Odorizzi at the deadline, as no doubt none of them will return to the team in 2020. But the Indians didn't run away, and the Twins now have some openings (basically same openings they had at the trade deadline....need for a top-flight starter, need for a possible secondar starter, a closer, and a solid bullpen arm...preferably with team control.

 

The team, going into 2020, has hard decisions on where Rosario, Buxton, Sano and Berrios fit into the organization and how much they wish to spend to keep them in the organization. Decisions made on those four will cause fan outcry, either allowing the players to go elsewhere (with healthy returns), or cries of overpayment.

 

Falvey and Levine still have two more years under their contract. 2020 will be a tough season, as they have to rebuild a rotation, and hope the offense stays pretty close to the same. The purse strings could open a tad more. There are a number of potential prospects who could make their major league debut in 2020, and actually too many bodies for protected roster spots in the years 2020-2022 under contract right now...so the fact that the Twins didn't put together a dynmaite package fo someone (say Grienke, who didn't want to play here) which would've made them more competitive in a playoff situation and the Astros less, is moot now. 

 

As fans, we can get mad if a team plays a bit with smoke and mirrors, creating a team to win the division but coming up constantly in the playoffs. Sure, Minnesota can't afford to have tens of millions sitting in limbo or on the bench (that they released Addison Reed was a shocker). But, again, no one says a little David can't knock down a Goliath. Put your best pitchers against the other teams worst pitchers in the playoffs. Hope you can figure out the perfect lineup construction. See how hard the players will play when extending the season or going home is on the line. 

 

But back to the beginnings of this post. The Twins see value in Rowson as a hitting coach, otherwise he wouldn't have been a holdover. Jeremy and Dan have pretty powerful and solid positions in the organization and someday...if Falvey and Levine run a decade+ dynasty in this town, they will go elsewhere when a job materializes, but right now the Twins could still throw money their way, and if the guys are comfortable....they stay. But if there are cracks in the system that we fans aren't seeing, they will explore better opportunities.

 

Let's just hope the Twins, in the current state, can hold on to the division and make the playoffs. That would be dynamite. Thoughts of a 95+ winning season are beautiful. But it ain't over until it is over!

Joel Thingvall
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rosterman at www.twinscards.com


#44 Thrylos

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:37 AM

I don't know.I can see some people moving to bigger and better roles in other organizations, but not many making lateral moves. Where the Astros "raided" after their success?Not that much.

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#45 jimbo92107

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:45 AM

 

I wish we can stop talking about Falvey and Levine and give props to Rocco, Wes Johnson and the rest of the staff

I agree, except it was F&L that found and hired the coaching staff. Folks that do the hiring should get due credit for that. Rocco, Johnson and Rowston wouldn't be here if the Twins didn't have a pretty darn smart front office team. 

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#46 rdehring

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:49 AM

 

So much for the FO and coaches. What about all of the 1 year free agent signings that blended together so well? I think its fair to say that the team that opens in 2020 will be far different than this 2019 bunch who have complimented each other so well. Unfortunately the 100 win season, if it happens, will be the result of the pre All Star game record and being almost injury free during the first half. Rosario led the league in home runs early and Kepler has had a career year. Twins had the best record in MLB for a time. The team taking the field now is a team trying to maintain a winning record over the remaining games and get into the playoffs as a result of the first half excellence.

Again, I am more concerned about the makeup of the team next year than suit and tie giys and coaches getting raided.

In the mean time, lets simply enjoy watching 2019 play itself out. Maybe more surprises in store.

You said something Number 3 that has been a burr under my saddle much of the summer.And considering today's tone on this site, I am in no way being critical of what you said as I have read it in the traditional media as well as heard it from the broadcast booths.

 

The comment is that the Twins were healthy during the first half of the season.Considering that they played the first six weeks of the season without their most dangerous power hitter, Miguel Sano, that just isn't true.Can you imagine the power numbers he would have right now had he had a regular spring training and had played in say 125-130 games (versus the 91 he had played)?

 

 


#47 jkcarew

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:59 AM

'Raided' implies a scenario where another company/organization comes in and 'steals' the employee by overpaying to have that person perform the same job/responsibilities for the raiding organization. I think what is meant in the article...and what is more realistic in the real world...is that these people would receive new opportunities with added responsibilities...promotions...in new organizations.

 

I see that in the case of the first two. But, what is the scenario for Rowson leaving? For a hitting coach to MLB manager promotion? I guess maybe a team could offer him an 'assistant manager - hitting' title with a hefty raise? Unlikely. I think hitting coach is a position you leave if you choose to change the direction of your career...or, more often, when you're fired.


#48 MMMordabito

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 12:31 PM

Too bad there isn't draft pick compensation for losing coaching and management personnel


#49 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 12:36 AM

If you were to go back and review Channing's posting history regarding Falvey, I think you'd understand Brock's lack of patience.
Channing has posted, multiple times, and without sarcasm, that he thinks Falvey is covertly operating under the employment of the Indians, intentionally tanking the Twins in order to benefit Cleveland.
If a poster has that view of Falvey, I don't think some pushback is to be unexpected.

i absolutely do not expect everyone to agree with me 100% however, i can cite at least 3 specific moves that infuriated me last year. Escobar, Pressly, and Rodney. And in 2017 what was that Jaime Garcia fiasco? Does anyone even remember what we got for our closer at the time Brandon Kintzler? I am more than an average fan and frankly I am not impressed with either of them. I do not begrudge anyone to think they are the reason for any of our successes. I just know better. I realize this is a "pro" ownership site and most of you weren't old enough to enjoy the Championship Seasons or even realize what was really happening. Believe me, if we win another one, it will be because of the players and the manager on the field. Not the owner, the gm, the CEO, or the yes men.If they love it here so much let em stay...maybe some day they could carry Andy McPhails briefcase for him.

#50 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 01:47 AM

Glad I gently saw this all before it disappears. 
 
Put me in the room that is still amazed Pressly was traded. And who couln't have used Escobar? Prospects? This was not the year for prospects. Especially A-ball and below prospects. This was a year to make a team ready for the playoffs. Winning regular season games is nice. But hitting great pitching under pressure is what makes champions. When the Twins bring up pitchers they develop that perform like Walker Buehler and Tony Gonsolin and Julio Urías, I'll be buying in, but not when the call ups perform like Stashak and Smeltzer. I could have used a signing of DJ LeMahieu instead of Schoop, for sure, and was disappointed in the decision, and still am. We have some over acheiving on offense that has made things a lot of fun, no doubt. But I am not enamored to a point of gushing. The break outs that have carried this team were not due to the current FO. But Cruz was. Times are changing, and I hope that the shifts are not always used when they don't have to be. If a group gels, and then they just split up the gang for a little more cash..... so be it. But hopefully they are developing staff that feels like a "community" and sees beyond the greenbacks, and stick around make us all believers. Proof is in building a team that can not only get to the post season, but win in the post season. This might be a tough year to do it, with the pitching staff that has been assembled (or should that be not assembled?), and with either Houston or New York in an ALDS.... that is, if this team can take it to the finish line.

unbelievably a voice of reason in a sea of insanity...bravo sir. I am still waiting for Derek Falveys autographed framed photo to come in the mail so i can put on the wall in my office.

#51 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 05:21 AM

i absolutely do not expect everyone to agree with me 100% however, i can cite at least 3 specific moves that infuriated me last year. Escobar, Pressly, and Rodney. And in 2017 what was that Jaime Garcia fiasco? Does anyone even remember what we got for our closer at the time Brandon Kintzler? I am more than an average fan and frankly I am not impressed with either of them. I do not begrudge anyone to think they are the reason for any of our successes. I just know better. I realize this is a "pro" ownership site and most of you weren't old enough to enjoy the Championship Seasons or even realize what was really happening. Believe me, if we win another one, it will be because of the players and the manager on the field. Not the owner, the gm, the CEO, or the yes men.If they love it here so much let em stay...maybe some day they could carry Andy McPhails briefcase for him.


Escobar was a pending free agent during an 84 loss season.
They attempted to sign him to an extension, he said no thanks- which is his right.
They got back some pretty good prospects, rather than watch him leave for nothing. Is your problem with that move that you don't think they got enough in return, or that you'd rather he left for nothing?

Pressley looks like it could have been a mistake. Every FO makes mistakes. I'm not sure if you're demanding perfection or not.

I'm not exactly sure what your problem is with trading 41 year old Fernando Rodney is. He was released by Oakland in May because he was terrible, and would be the worst regular pitcher in our bullpen this year.

Jaime Garcia fiasco? Garcia is now out of baseball. In return, we got Zach Littell who has an ERA 48% better than league average, and has 19 scoreless outings in his last 20 appearances.

Your criticism of a move that worked out as well as the Garcia one did, combined with you conveniently omitting moves like trading Jermaine Palacios for Jake Odorizzi, signing Nelson Cruz and Marwin Gonzalez, working out valuable extensions for Kepler and Polanco, etc., makes it hard for me not to think you made up your mind early on these guys and nothing they could have done or will do would change your mind.
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#52 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:03 PM

Escobar was a pending free agent during an 84 loss season.
They attempted to sign him to an extension, he said no thanks- which is his right.
They got back some pretty good prospects, rather than watch him leave for nothing. Is your problem with that move that you don't think they got enough in return, or that you'd rather he left for nothing?
Pressley looks like it could have been a mistake. Every FO makes mistakes. I'm not sure if you're demanding perfection or not.
I'm not exactly sure what your problem is with trading 41 year old Fernando Rodney is. He was released by Oakland in May because he was terrible, and would be the worst regular pitcher in our bullpen this year.
Jaime Garcia fiasco? Garcia is now out of baseball. In return, we got Zach Littell who has an ERA 48% better than league average, and has 19 scoreless outings in his last 20 appearances.
Your criticism of a move that worked out as well as the Garcia one did, combined with you conveniently omitting moves like trading Jermaine Palacios for Jake Odorizzi, signing Nelson Cruz and Marwin Gonzalez, working out valuable extensions for Kepler and Polanco, etc., makes it hard for me not to think you made up your mind early on these guys and nothing they could have done or will do would change your mind.

The last thing I come here to do is argue with anyone. Especially when we are all united by a common bond. I don't wanna waste time defending my opinions nor trying to rebut yours. I get it that a lot of people are pleased with the FO. Congrats to them on a successful team effort and yes they do deserve some of the credit. My point is this....Let us not forget our feelings when they began their historic careers here. It seems like everyone here thinks they are the saviors of our franchise. Some of us used to think that way about Terry Ryan too. You are a smart guy I am sure of that. When i soured on this FO was when in 2017 and this team was white hot, they couldn't step back and leave em alone. Trading Kintzler at that time was idiotic. Then they dismantle the team in 2018 saying we have no opportunity for a Championship. Now....with all of us looking out the window of opportunity they have basically locked the window and sat on their hands to watch the (anticipated) ending. I hope we shock the world in 2019. If we do, let me apologize now if I cant see why they deserve any credit for it. If Rodney and his 25 saves at the time of that trade was so bad then why are we paying a disabled low A player a high draft pick salary instead of just cutting Rodney back then. Wait, was that the same Fernando Rodney that recorded a Hold for the Nats last night? It couldn't be the same guy. You wanted Odorizzi's a$$ outta town last year when he couldnt get past 5 innings. Now you're gonna applaud that trade. Its basically the same guy with run support. I said all along he had always been better than 2018. You CAN have it both ways...I dont care. I just see it through different eyes. They have done an ok job in the front office. They are not our saviors. This team will survive believe me, without them. If you wanna praise anyone for any of this why not praise the Pohlads? They hired em. I think Baldelli has been the key this year. To me Falvey and Levine are what I thought they were. Yes Men. "we have a limited budget". "we dont have a window of opportunity". "we dint see the long term benefits". "we have money cleared but no one is available" All they do is provide excuses for failure or their decisions not to take a risk. When they go I wont miss em. Dombrowski would take this opportunity and run with it. After you cry about them leaving for their dream jobs you wont miss em either.I didnt know what to expect from Andy McPhail either but I know what we got. The time to go for it was before the trading deadline, or last winter. They didnt do enough. Soon you will hear a B.S. excuse about how their hands were tied. I will be right here waiting to say "I told you so" In the meantime...Lets beat the damn Nationals tonight!!!!" All this debating this ar that about the Falvines wont matter one bit next year when someone else is in charge. I apologize if I wasn't and am not impressed by our young leaders.As a Twins fan for life I reserve that right.

#53 howeda7

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:23 PM

 

Escobar was a pending free agent during an 84 loss season.
They attempted to sign him to an extension, he said no thanks- which is his right.
They got back some pretty good prospects, rather than watch him leave for nothing. Is your problem with that move that you don't think they got enough in return, or that you'd rather he left for nothing?


Pressley looks like it could have been a mistake. Every FO makes mistakes. I'm not sure if you're demanding perfection or not.

I'm not exactly sure what your problem is with trading 41 year old Fernando Rodney is. He was released by Oakland in May because he was terrible, and would be the worst regular pitcher in our bullpen this year.

Jaime Garcia fiasco? Garcia is now out of baseball. In return, we got Zach Littell who has an ERA 48% better than league average, and has 19 scoreless outings in his last 20 appearances.

Your criticism of a move that worked out as well as the Garcia one did, combined with you conveniently omitting moves like trading Jermaine Palacios for Jake Odorizzi, signing Nelson Cruz and Marwin Gonzalez, working out valuable extensions for Kepler and Polanco, etc., makes it hard for me not to think you made up your mind early on these guys and nothing they could have done or will do would change your mind.

Did they though? What did they offer him? He's making $5 million less than Gonzalez and is a far better version.

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#54 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:10 PM

Rodney opened the 2018 season with Minnesota before being dealt to Oakland in August. Overall, the veteran reliever posted a combined 3.36 ERA, 1.46 WHIP and 9.8 K/9 across 64.1 innings of relief. He also registered 25 saves and seven holds. I usually would not bother with this...The Twins in 2018 were not out of it. The Fernando Rodney Experience netted us 25 saves before the trading deadline. I would have been mad as H E double hockey sticks if i had 2018 season tickets and had to watch 1/3 of the season like a spring training try out session. Contrary to popular belief Willians Astudillo is no Mitch Garver...or Jason Castro. I got all day. Until the game starts. For those of us with 35 plus years of Minnesota Twins fans experience, sorry man. Jack Morris left us too. We arent gonna miss two Cleveland and Texas interns when they leave either. With any luck.

#55 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

The last thing I come here to do is argue with anyone. Especially when we are all united by a common bond. I don't wanna waste time defending my opinions nor trying to rebut yours. I get it that a lot of people are pleased with the FO. Congrats to them on a successful team effort and yes they do deserve some of the credit. My point is this....Let us not forget our feelings when they began their historic careers here. It seems like everyone here thinks they are the saviors of our franchise. Some of us used to think that way about Terry Ryan too. You are a smart guy I am sure of that. When i soured on this FO was when in 2017 and this team was white hot, they couldn't step back and leave em alone. Trading Kintzler at that time was idiotic. Then they dismantle the team in 2018 saying we have no opportunity for a Championship. Now....with all of us looking out the window of opportunity they have basically locked the window and sat on their hands to watch the (anticipated) ending. I hope we shock the world in 2019. If we do, let me apologize now if I cant see why they deserve any credit for it. If Rodney and his 25 saves at the time of that trade was so bad then why are we paying a disabled low A player a high draft pick salary instead of just cutting Rodney back then. Wait, was that the same Fernando Rodney that recorded a Hold for the Nats last night? It couldn't be the same guy. You wanted Odorizzi's a$$ outta town last year when he couldnt get past 5 innings. Now you're gonna applaud that trade. Its basically the same guy with run support. I said all along he had always been better than 2018. You CAN have it both ways...I dont care. I just see it through different eyes. They have done an ok job in the front office. They are not our saviors. This team will survive believe me, without them. If you wanna praise anyone for any of this why not praise the Pohlads? They hired em. I think Baldelli has been the key this year. To me Falvey and Levine are what I thought they were. Yes Men. "we have a limited budget". "we dont have a window of opportunity". "we dint see the long term benefits". "we have money cleared but no one is available" All they do is provide excuses for failure or their decisions not to take a risk. When they go I wont miss em. Dombrowski would take this opportunity and run with it. After you cry about them leaving for their dream jobs you wont miss em either.I didnt know what to expect from Andy McPhail either but I know what we got. The time to go for it was before the trading deadline, or last winter. They didnt do enough. Soon you will hear a B.S. excuse about how their hands were tied. I will be right here waiting to say "I told you so" In the meantime...Lets beat the damn Nationals tonight!!!!" All this debating this ar that about the Falvines wont matter one bit next year when someone else is in charge. I apologize if I wasn't and am not impressed by our young leaders.As a Twins fan for life I reserve that right.


You must have me confused with someone else. I've always said that Odorizzi was a steal for Palacios, even at Odorizzi's absolute floor.

#56 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:16 PM

Rodney opened the 2018 season with Minnesota before being dealt to Oakland in August. Overall, the veteran reliever posted a combined 3.36 ERA, 1.46 WHIP and 9.8 K/9 across 64.1 innings of relief. He also registered 25 saves and seven holds. I usually would not bother with this...The Twins in 2018 were not out of it. The Fernando Rodney Experience netted us 25 saves before the trading deadline. I would have been mad as H E double hockey sticks if i had 2018 season tickets and had to watch 1/3 of the season like a spring training try out session. Contrary to popular belief Willians Astudillo is no Mitch Garver...or Jason Castro. I got all day. Until the game starts. For those of us with 35 plus years of Minnesota Twins fans experience, sorry man. Jack Morris left us too. We arent gonna miss two Cleveland and Texas interns when they leave either. With any luck.


If I didn't know any better (and believe me i do), I'd say this looks an awful lot like you applauding their decision to sign Fernando Rodney.

#57 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:20 PM

Did they though? What did they offer him? He's making $5 million less than Gonzalez and is a far better version.

Yes....I would absolutely like to know what that offer was. Anybody that knows about baseball would say that was a bonehead trade. I live in Arizona and i have seen Escobar become the heart and soul of the Diamondbacks. Just like he was as a Twin. They traded him for NOTHING. I can only see that they did that to dismantle the team chemistry. Well congrats...it worked. Now by doing nothing they are destroying this team as well. Being successful in 2017, and 2019 must have been too soon fir their "long term goals". I can only shake my head. I played the game and you will never convince me that Heart, Chemistry, Teamwork, and Leadership aren't Championship qualities.

#58 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:23 PM

If I didn't know any better (and believe me i do), I'd say this looks an awful lot like you applauding their decision to sign Fernando Rodney.

you're right you dont know any better. They wouldnt have needed Rodney at all if they still had Kintzler. Remember him?

#59 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:30 PM

If I didn't know any better (and believe me i do), I'd say this looks an awful lot like you applauding their decision to sign Fernando Rodney.

I see the game with my eyes and my heart. Odirizzi is a winner. Perez had a live arm when i saw him at least ten times in Surprise Az. (rangers/royals spring training) Whatever has happened has been some good some bad. Some people cant wait to jump all over me because i was not and am not a member of the Falvine fan club. So What. They will nit be the reason for winning on the field. Nor should they be blamed for blown saves or popping out with RISP. Point....No Front Office is more important than the men and the field staff on the field every single day.

#60 Channing1964

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:32 PM

if you wanna debate me i welcome you...my e mail is ccgschmidt19@gmail.com This is not the forum for that.



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