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"Resting" players

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#81 old nurse

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 06:11 PM

 

Conversely, I'd like to see any concrete data that disproves it.

 

It certainly hasn't gotten the Twins to September healthy and rested. 

You are the one making the claim what he is doing is bad. Show your work other than having a Gardy Gut feeling.

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#82 prouster

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 08:58 PM

After a terrible year like this one, how could they not rest players less?
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#83 Huskertwin

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 06:01 AM

 

I like this because someone recognizes that 1B defense IS important. Sadly, thats not as widely held an opinion as I would think it should be. I will say I am not sure Cruz was who you meant? Cron?

Yes, I meant Cron. Duh! for me.


#84 TwinkieTownKiller

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 06:32 AM

 

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

I'm fine with resting players throughout the season, especially through the first 2/3 of the season. My issue is that Rocco has said he's done it for guys like Garver so they could be fresh for the end of year stretch. As we've seen, he can't help himself and that was just a blatant lie. Garver is one of the few players actually hitting right now, and Rocco won't even allow him to take at bats in consecutive games. He's playing with fire, and it would be perfect Minnesota sports to see all the "rest days" along the way and blow this division by half a game or something. I've definitely lost a lot of faith in Rocco as we've seen his decision making crumble in big spots, both in individual games (bunting, leaving pitchers in too long, bringing guys like Parker into high leverage spots repeatedly) or now when the season is still very much in question (resting our best hitters, leaving Rosario in the cleanup spot). There's rookie mistakes, and then there's just ignoring statistics. The latter is just unacceptable.


#85 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:18 AM

it would be perfect Minnesota sports to see all the "rest days" along the way and blow this division by half a game or something.

That would be quite the feat, for sure.
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#86 twinsnorth49

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 09:14 AM

It's almost as if teams are actually researching this crazy notion......

 

https://www.cbssport...perform-better/

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#87 twinsnorth49

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 09:19 AM

Baseball is a relentless schedule, resting players certainly doesn't guarantee they don't get injured, but no team actually believes that and it isn't the reason they do it. Less wear and tear is definitely going to give your body a better chance of staying stronger. Baseball is not the only sport addressing this issue, basketball has been doing it for years.
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#88 HighHeat

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:53 PM

In a sport where Hall of Fame success is failing less than 70% of the time, but only by the slimmest of margins, the crux of most of this debate seems to only include half of the equation. The mental grind contributes as much as the physical portion to the need for players getting an off day. I’m not sure how you quantify that part precisely, but the idea that Rocco has lost his marbles with his approach in 2019 is comical. We are either getting trolled or found the leading candidates for the get off my lawn club.

Now, should we be worried the pendulum could swing too far, that’s a fair question. However, the dynamics of facing 3-4 pitchers for your 4-5 AB’s daily should not be discounted as part of the challenge either. Given the choice, I think most hitters would have loved to play 30-50 years ago when they got to regularly face a starter 3-4 times per game.

I’m excited for the new rules next year about minimum batters faced. I think it could help restore health to relievers, as they’ll have less back to backs, but also improve the offenses chances late in games. As a fan, there isn’t much worse than trailing by 1-2 after 5 innings versus the Yankees and feeling like the game is done because of their bullpen.
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#89 h2oface

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 05:47 PM

Rhythm of life. 

 

The ol' stay in rhythm and play all the time - or take time off to perform better. The player that gets too much rest says I need to play more and I'm out of rhythm. I would be hitting if only I would play every day. 

 

2010 history. September 22 the Twins had just clinched the day before, had a comfortable lead and a record of 92-60, and Gardenhire started resting players to get them "fresh" for the playoffs, and let them "heal" from the little dings that they, and all teams, were now feeling from the long season, and took it them out of the rhythm that had gotten them there. They started the culture of losing (that seemed to go into 2011 and the 63-99 fiasco), finished the season 2-8, 0-3 in the ALDS - went 2-11 to end their season. 

 

I don't think analytics considers human rhythms yet, do they? It seems to be a thing that has been happening for quite some time, though.

Edited by h2oface, 12 September 2019 - 05:50 PM.

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#90 h2oface

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 05:52 PM

 

Baseball is a relentless schedule, resting players certainly doesn't guarantee they don't get injured, but no team actually believes that and it isn't the reason they do it. Less wear and tear and is definitely going to give your body a better chance of staying stronger. Baseball is not the only sport addressing this issue, basketball has been doing it for years. 

 

It always seems that the team that wins a series early, and has to sit a week and wait and rest..... is never quite the same to me..... but I have did not reasearch the actuality of what the results have been.

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#91 spycake

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 05:57 PM

 

2010 history. September 22 the Twins had just clinched the day before, had a comfortable lead and a record of 92-60, and Gardenhire started resting players to get them "fresh" for the playoffs, and let them "heal" from the little dings that they, and all teams, were now feeling from the long season, and took it them out of the rhythm that had gotten them there. They started the culture of losing (that seemed to go into 2011 and the 63-99 fiasco), finished the season 2-8, 0-3 in the ALDS - went 2-11 to end their season. 

Then again, in 2006 and 2009 Gardy's teams went down to the wire in the regular season, finishing strong, and got swept in the ALDS just the same...

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#92 Danchat

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 06:08 PM

 

Rhythm of life. 

 

The ol' stay in rhythm and play all the time - or take time off to perform better. The player that gets too much rest says I need to play more and I'm out of rhythm. I would be hitting if only I would play every day. 

 

2010 history. September 22 the Twins had just clinched the day before, had a comfortable lead and a record of 92-60, and Gardenhire started resting players to get them "fresh" for the playoffs, and let them "heal" from the little dings that they, and all teams, were now feeling from the long season, and took it them out of the rhythm that had gotten them there. They started the culture of losing (that seemed to go into 2011 and the 63-99 fiasco), finished the season 2-8, 0-3 in the ALDS - went 2-11 to end their season. 

 

I don't think analytics considers human rhythms yet, do they? It seems to be a thing that has been happening for quite some time, though.

Or maybe they just ran into a really Yankees squad?
 

Plenty of teams in several different sports have tried resting their starters, and some have tried playing their starters in meaningless games with varying results. I just find it hard to believe that giving a player small amounts of rest could be a bad thing - especially since now some are wanting the Twins to have their players play through injuries, which seems like a poor idea to me.

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Check out my work at Purple Pain, a Vikings forum: 

Analyzing the Past Decade of Vikings Offseasons


#93 twinsnorth49

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 06:47 PM

Because we are human and need rest. And God created the Sabbath specifically for that reason.


And then created Sunday shopping.
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#94 Krabby5

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:32 PM

I agree with the premise of resting players. The season, including spring training, is at least 7 months long. Players don't have weekends off like the rest of us. We can only imagine how relentless the grind is.
 
I have long entertained the idea that players should be given a little two-week vacation during the season to keep them fresh. While this isn't realistic, I think it would be healthy to get away from the game and come back refreshed.
 
How Baldelli has handled the team this year is fine with me. Gone are the days when the Jerry Terrells of the world hardly ever played.


Is this serious? They are playing BASEBALL for a living...BASEBALL. They get to get up every day and play baseball for big money. How awful that they never get weekends off. Lol. Holy F..

You do realize they get about 5 months off a year, right?
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#95 yarnivek1972

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:36 PM

Is this serious? They are playing BASEBALL for a living...BASEBALL. They get to get up every day and play baseball for big money. How awful that they never get weekends off. Lol. Holy F..

You do realize they get about 5 months off a year, right?


Spring reporting dates are mid February. So, even for teams that don’t make the playoffs, that’s 4 1/2 at most.
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#96 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:55 PM

Is this serious? They are playing BASEBALL for a living...BASEBALL. They get to get up every day and play baseball for big money. How awful that they never get weekends off. Lol. Holy F..

You do realize they get about 5 months off a year, right?


You think they don't work out don't the off season? It's a job, not a game.
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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#97 USAFChief

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:19 AM

 

12 of his 14 AL peers appear to be similarly inexperienced, excluding Bob Melvin, who has shown remarkable discipline this year in writing Robbie Grossman's name into the lineup seemingly as often as humanly possible, and Alex Cora, who has turned in a season that has gotten his boss fired.

Just to follow up on this...

 

As of this morning, no Twin has played in 140 games (Polanco leads with 139, Kepler is next with 131.)

 

There are 38 players in MLB with 140 or more games played. If we were to take that to 130 games, there are dozens more. 

 

And that ignores players like Lindor, who play every day, but who missed time due to the IL.

 

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#98 Jham

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:27 AM

That would be quite the feat, for sure.


Maybe we tie for the division, but our broken down team has no pitchers left, so we just give our spot to the White Sox and Giolito agreeing that if the White Sox win they get the division but if they lose they're out and we get the wild card. predictably, they lose. Twins finish half a game back in second. In this scenario, 1 more win would have saved the season and a lot of confusion.
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#99 SpicyGarvSauce

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:30 AM

If resting players is such a brilliant decision, how does someone like Adrianza get injured when he plays so sparingly and has essentially been resting 5-6 times a week? I understand the flukey-ness of injuries, to a certain extent, but it just goes to show that resting players doesn't necessarily mean guys will be more fresh and less likely to get injured.


#100 ashbury

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:22 AM

And that ignores players like Lindor, who play every day, but who missed time due to the IL.

Yeah, I was a bit gobsmacked by no-Polanco in yesterday's lineup. I guess the silver lining is that Ehire stepped in and took whatever injury bullet may have been destined for Jorge.

 

It looks for all the world as if Rocco has pushed all his chips in on this 3-game road series in Cleveland. But this is based on an assumption of optimal lineups (modulo the handedness of the opposing pitcher, in a few cases) in each of the three games. If we don't see that, then I don't know what to say. And staking a lot on any series is really risky for any number of reasons.

 

It's as if Rocco looked at the 1964 Phillies and decided that the solution was to pitch Bunning and Short and Mahaffey once every ten days each, down the stretch.

 

Withholding further judgement until after the weekend.

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