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Is Cruz the best Twins FA signing ever?

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#1 RIP BYTO

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:32 PM

The old man has only been a Twin a short time and even shorter when you look at games played, but so far, is he the best FA signing in Twins history?

My top 3 prior to this year were:
1. Molitor
2. Morris
3. Davis

A lot can change between now and October, but I Am tempted to place him number 1 already. There are few players in Twins history that has me glued to the TV when he’s up to bat like him. Kirby Puckett being the exception.

Convince me otherwise.

Edited by RIP BYTO, 20 August 2019 - 09:46 PM.


#2 DiscGolfer

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:37 PM

1Morris

 

WS MVP flags fly forever

 

if Cruz helps win the WS I'll give it to him

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#3 Sconnie

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:47 PM

1 Morris

WS MVP flags fly forever

if Cruz helps win the WS I'll give it to him

Does that put Chili Davis number 2?
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#4 Linus

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:02 PM

Interesting topic. I would go with Morris because of the World Series. However the Cruz signing is easily the best move Falvine have made. The man is fantastic and a great role model for the younger players
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#5 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:26 PM

Rondell White is sad right now.

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#6 USAFChief

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:27 PM

 

Rondell White is sad right now.

He was pretty sad when he was signed, too.

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Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#7 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:28 PM

But in all seriousness, is Cruz better than Thome? Probably, but it's close.

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#8 MNT1996

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:34 PM

 

But in all seriousness, is Cruz better than Thome? Probably, but it's close.

 

Comparing Cruz's slash line + 33 HRs + 80 RBI (and still a month left to play) to Thome's 2010 numbers...it doesn't really seem close at all in my opinion

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#9 HighHeat

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:51 PM

Phil Hughes 4.5 WAR in his first season with us, when we were pitching starved, was a great signing. Too bad it was wiped from the memory bank of many with the massive contract extension mistake.
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#10 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:55 PM

 

Comparing Cruz's slash line + 33 HRs + 80 RBI (and still a month left to play) to Thome's 2010 numbers...it doesn't really seem close at all in my opinion

Home runs and power are going at a discounted rate in 2019.

 

2019 Cruz OPS+: 171

 

2010 Thome OPS+: 182

 

Fangraphs has a similar take:

 

2019 Cruz wRC+: 169

 

2010 Thome wRC+: 177

 

Though Thome had a shortened season in 2010, even more so than Cruz this season so that should count for something.

 

But Thome was an absolute beast that season and another good lesson about how baseball can change over just a few years. Looking at counting stats in 2010 doesn't tell the real story when comparing to counting stats in 2019.

 

The same goes for 1968 versus 1974 or 1982 versus 1989.

 

What matters in baseball is comparative stats and rate stats, how a player does in comparison to his single season peers, not overall in baseball history because baseball history is wildly in flux every few years.

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#11 Shaitan

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:07 PM

Yeah, but Thome could barely move and he never played past the 6th inning either.

 

He was a great role player signing, but he was a role player.


#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:08 PM

 

Yeah, but Thome could barely move and he never played past the 6th inning either.

 

He was a great role player signing, but he was a role player.

Thome was... a DH.

 

Cruz is... a DH.

 

edit: OKAY, SERIOUSLY, I CAN'T LET THIS ONE GO.

 

Nelson Cruz has not played a single inning on the field this year.

 

Not. A. Single. Inning.

 

So how on earth do you even make the argument that Thome was somehow compromised but Cruz is not?

ALSO: Jim Thome did not play a single inning on the field in 2010.

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#13 MNT1996

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:14 PM

 

Home runs and power are going at a discounted rate in 2019.

 

2019 Cruz OPS+: 171

 

2010 Thome OPS+: 182

 

Fangraphs has a similar take:

 

2019 Cruz wRC+: 169

 

2010 Thome wRC+: 177

 

Though Thome had a shortened season in 2010, even more so than Cruz this season so that should count for something.

 

But Thome was an absolute beast that season and another good lesson about how baseball can change over just a few years. Looking at counting stats in 2010 doesn't tell the real story when comparing to counting stats in 2019.

 

The same goes for 1968 versus 1974 or 1982 versus 1989.

 

What matters in baseball is comparative stats and rate stats, how a player does in comparison to his single season peers, not overall in baseball history because baseball history is wildly in flux every few years.

 

Fair enough. Can't argue with statistics. If Cruz helps the Twins go far in the playoffs with similar numbers to what he has currently I would say that Cruz is the better signing, but you definitely make a good point that Thome had better numbers. I guess I just have some recency bias. 

Edited by MNT1996, 21 August 2019 - 09:14 PM.

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#14 Shaitan

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:20 PM

 

Thome was... a DH.

 

Cruz is... a DH.

 

edit: OKAY, SERIOUSLY, I CAN'T LET THIS ONE GO.

 

Nelson Cruz has not played a single inning on the field this year.

 

Not. A. Single. Inning.

 

So how on earth do you even make the argument that Thome was somehow compromised but Cruz is not?

ALSO: Jim Thome did not play a single inning on the field in 2010.

Because they pinch ran for Thome every single game in the 7th inning and never started him more than 2 games in a row.

 

Cruz, when healthy, may not play the field but he plays 9 innings, isn't a liability on the bases, and (IL record this year noted) isn't brittle.

Edited by Shaitan, 21 August 2019 - 09:21 PM.


#15 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:28 PM

 

Because they pinch ran for Thome every single game in the 7th inning and never started him more than 2 games in a row.

 

Cruz, when healthy, may not play the field but he plays 9 innings, isn't a liability on the bases, and (IL record this year noted) isn't brittle.

No, Thome was replaced on a regular basis because the team had Joe-freakin-Mauer in his prime at catcher that season.

 

Who do you choose in that situation to DH, Joe Mauer or Jim Thome?

 

There isn't a wrong answer to that question.

 

But it also doesn't diminish the sheer greatness of Thome in 2010.

 

And if you want to bring up brittle, Thome didn't miss any time in 2010, but Cruz certainly has in 2019.

 

https://www.baseball...1&t=b&year=2010


#16 yarnivek1972

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:38 PM

Rondell White is sad right now.


He must be the best. Not only did the Twins sign him. They signed him again the next year.
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#17 Darius

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:17 PM

Cruz has missed some time lately, and he started slow. But, the last month or two seems epic (without looking at any numbers). I recall the stretch recently with multiple 3 HR games in the span of about a week. He nearly had a third 3 HR game in between (and would’ve in many other parks) with two doubles a foot from going over top corner of the wall out in right center of Target Field. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Thome was great, but for my money I’ll take Cruz.

Edited by Darius, 21 August 2019 - 10:20 PM.


#18 SpicyGarvSauce

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:44 AM

Shame on all of you for forgetting that Nick Punto signed as a FA with Minnesota back in 2008.

 

That is the GOAT. End of discussion.

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#19 ewen21

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 11:41 AM

Shame on all of you for forgetting that Nick Punto signed as a FA with Minnesota back in 2008.

That is the GOAT. End of discussion.


Even if this is strictly just a goof it's got me riled up!

Anyway, I gotta say Cruz over Thome

we are comparing two DHs here. Cruz already has hit 8 more home runs, has driven in 21 more runs and has a much higher batting average.

Thome was great and he did damage, but Cruz has done even more damage and has more weeks to do even more damage.

I would also give Cruz props for leadership. He's the kind of veteran that you want around young players and we really haven't had that since Thome.

#20 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 11:48 AM

 

But in all seriousness, is Cruz better than Thome? Probably, but it's close.

 

Thome was awesome but what Cruz is doing this year has been phenomenal. 

 

 

The sad thing is Twins have had the opportunity to sign Nelson Cruz quite a few times over the years. He and Adrian Beltre were 2 guys I always wanted to Twins to go after, but they just never did. 

 

 

 

Edited by Battle ur tail off, 22 August 2019 - 11:48 AM.