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The Rays got their man at the deadline. Arggggh!

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#21 Sconnie

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 08:50 PM

We can’t possibly know if the Twins had or didn’t have interest in trading for Anderson or Gallen, or what offers were made. Equivalent values based on whatever online tools available to us, are estimates. They have no insight to the value that one FO places on a player and another team’s prospect.

It’s fair to say this team would have been better had Falvey kept Pressly. It’s not fair to say they should have gotten specific deals done. I wanted them to do more at the deadline, it didn’t happen. It takes two to tango.
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#22 HawksNest

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:43 PM

Imagine a BP of Anderson and Pressly leading into Rogers....
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#23 Rosterman

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:09 PM

Plus they could've traded six or so prospects for Grienke. Imagine what he would mean to the rotation these past two weeks?

 

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#24 Danchat

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:11 PM

 

I think we can disabuse the notion that Falvey is some sort of pitching whisperer. The Twins pitching hasn’t been good since they got here and have made decisions that have actually made things worse

I would at least wait until their internally developed pitching prospects make it to the majors, including their drafted pitchers (Landon Leach, Blayne Enlow, Cole Sands, Josh Winder, Matt Canterino), and acquired arms (Zack Littell, Jhoan Duran, Luis Rijo).

 

It would help if the past FO would have been able to develop a few more options - imagine how much Kohl Stewart and Tyler Jay would be helping if just one of them developed into the type of pitcher we were hoping for. 

 

So far the pitching development has been disappointing, at least in the majors, but we've been going through mostly Terry Ryan-acquired arms. I suspect things will improve when the FO's pet projects reach the majors.

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#25 DocBauer

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:14 PM

They've been pretty good discarding players without much of a sting afterwards. Nick Anderson is just one example out of dozens of players they let go. The others haven't made an impact at all at the MLB level. So with that being said, I agree. I think they're doing a good job trimming the fat each year.
Other than Nick Anderson this year, and Derek Rodriguez last year, are there other examples of players the Twins discarded and proved them wrong? Do we still wish JT Chargois is still in the organization? How about Nick Burdi? Or John Curtiss?
I still put the Pressly trade as #1, with a bullet, Falvine's biggest mistake.


A lot of great posts, but really like this one.

At some point, we need to let the Pressly move go. The FO thought they were being smart, but they blew that one. Every team makes mistakes. It's time to move on. NONE of the names mentioned above have done anything really. But agreed Anderson was a big mistake vs Belisle. Not pointing fingers, but was that the FO, or Molitor, or a combined mistake?

I find it strangely confusing because the FO has been so aggressive and forward thinking thjs season in regard to Littell, Poppen, Smeltzer and others. It leads me to believe that we not only missed an opportunity, but maybe the communication last season just wasn't as good.

Trades, development and progressive promotion/opportunity actually has the pen looking much better than it was a month or so ago, with additional optimism going forward.
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#26 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 05:28 AM

 

So, Kirilloff for five years of a number three? If those numbers are correct, I do that every time given this roster. Every time. They have one starter under contract for next year. One.

He's a rookie and he's pitching better than a 3 right now (albeit in the NL). I guess the question is whether he's peaked or if he'll get better. Typically those guys at that age improve. 

 

and yes, I'd make that trade... or perhaps you do a 55 FV guy and throw in a 45 if you really want to keep one of the top 3.Either way, I make that trade. 


#27 beckmt

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:05 AM

 

Every front office has misses... Add this to the list. Time will tell whether Anderson can sustain an MLB career.

There was a lot of teeth gnashing last year over losing Derek Rodriguez... This year was utterly forgettable for Rodriguez.

Rodriquez to me has the ability of a #4 or #5 starter.He had a great year last year, this year not so good. His last start was very good, so there is hope. 

Still this leads to concern about the Twins front office, because Rodriquez and Anderson were both lost for nothing and have turned in value elsewhere.

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#28 Riverbrian

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:36 AM

 

They've been pretty good discarding players without much of a sting afterwards. Nick Anderson is just one example out of dozens of players they let go. The others haven't made an impact at all at the MLB level. So with that being said, I agree. I think they're doing a good job trimming the fat each year.

Other than Nick Anderson this year, and Derek Rodriguez last year, are there other examples of players the Twins discarded and proved them wrong? Do we still wish JT Chargois is still in the organization? How about Nick Burdi? Or John Curtiss?

I still put the Pressly trade as #1, with a bullet, Falvine's biggest mistake.

 

I will take the progress that has been made and be thankful for the progress that has been made by this front office and I really don't like being on the critical side of them because I am truly thankful. 

 

No matter what I type below, I want it understood, I am over the moon happy with our front office and manager. 

 

To address your questions or points.

 

1. The majority of discards are obvious. They won't produce a sting because they were obvious. 

 

2. In the case of discards that could sting... they typically won't sting because they won't get the opportunity from other organizations to sting. They might get 10 "prove it now" innings or 10 "prove it now" AB's

 

3. Nick Anderson is a pretty stunning miss "by himself" when you consider that we just released 4 relief pitchers in July and gave Matt Belisle a 25 man roster spot last summer during a "we are a seller" season. 

 

4. Nick Anderson was traded, we kept DeJong, Vazquez, Moya. This is a bad miss in an area of acute need. 

 

5. Yes I wish we still had Chargois. He has had options since leaving Minnesota. He still has a 40 man spot with the Dodgers. 

 

6. Yes I wish we still had Burdi... (well not so much now with his shoulder issue) but yeah, he should be on our 60 day DL. He has 10 IP with Pittsburgh... He got rocked for 5 runs without getting a batter out before landing on the DL and that is going to inflate things with only 10 IP. However, 19 K's over those 10 IP's is pretty impressive. We can't be tossing guys like this away. 

 

7. Curtiss? He's looking like a "no sting" drop but regardless of how he looks now. He should have gotten a longer look than the 6.1 innings he pitched last year in consideration how bad last season was. 

 

8. I think the front office has been great... I'd like them to now handle their pitching staff like they are doing with the offense. Give them playing time and let the cream rise to the top. 25 guys who can play. 

 

9. I think the front office has been great but we wasted a lot of precious time with Morin, Parker and Magill. I wouldn't call them bullpen serious yet... at least as long as they are willing to give Morin a long look and toss aside Anderson, Burdi or Chargois. 

 

10. The Pressly trade was bad but at least we got something in return. In two years the trade could look different but yes it looks bad right now. However with Anderson... we got nothing in return. (Sorry Brian Scales). All we had to do was hand him the ball... SOMEONE GOT IN THE WAY OF THAT HAPPENING and we handed the ball to Belisle instead and then we handed it to DeJong and others instead. We released 4 bullpen arms in July. The bullpen looks a lot different with Anderson and Pressly in it. 

 

11. I sincerely, think the front office is doing a great job.Just being constructive for the future.:)

 

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#29 Dman

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:23 AM

I am on record as liking the Pressly trade as he wasn't going to help us in 2018 and the FO had all off season to find someone with stuff that was at least close to what was lost. 

 

They found a player in Marwin Gonzalaz to come close to replacing Escobar's production why couldn't they do that for the pen?If they would have then the Pressly trade wouldn't have looked so bad but by essentially not replacing that production then yes I agree that trade does look bad.It didn't have to look bad though.


#30 Vanimal46

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:35 AM

I will take the progress that has been made and be thankful for the progress that has been made by this front office and I really don't like being on the critical side of them because I am truly thankful.

No matter what I type below, I want it understood, I am over the moon happy with our front office and manager.

To address your questions or points.

1. The majority of discards are obvious. They won't produce a sting because they were obvious.

2. In the case of discards that could sting... they typically won't sting because they won't get the opportunity from other organizations to sting. They might get 10 "prove it now" innings or 10 "prove it now" AB's

3. Nick Anderson is a pretty stunning miss "by himself" when you consider that we just released 4 relief pitchers in July and gave Matt Belisle a 25 man roster spot last summer during a "we are a seller" season.

4. Nick Anderson was traded, we kept DeJong, Vazquez, Moya. This is a bad miss in an area of acute need.

5. Yes I wish we still had Chargois. He has had options since leaving Minnesota. He still has a 40 man spot with the Dodgers.

6. Yes I wish we still had Burdi... (well not so much now with his shoulder issue) but yeah, he should be on our 60 day DL. He has 10 IP with Pittsburgh... He got rocked for 5 runs without getting a batter out before landing on the DL and that is going to inflate things with only 10 IP. However, 19 K's over those 10 IP's is pretty impressive. We can't be tossing guys like this away.

7. Curtiss? He's looking like a "no sting" drop but regardless of how he looks now. He should have gotten a longer look than the 6.1 innings he pitched last year in consideration how bad last season was.

8. I think the front office has been great... I'd like them to now handle their pitching staff like they are doing with the offense. Give them playing time and let the cream rise to the top. 25 guys who can play.

9. I think the front office has been great but we wasted a lot of precious time with Morin, Parker and Magill. I wouldn't call them bullpen serious yet... at least as long as they are willing to give Morin a long look and toss aside Anderson, Burdi or Chargois.

10. The Pressly trade was bad but at least we got something in return. In two years the trade could look different but yes it looks bad right now. However with Anderson... we got nothing in return. (Sorry Brian Scales). All we had to do was hand him the ball... SOMEONE GOT IN THE WAY OF THAT HAPPENING and we handed the ball to Belisle instead and then we handed it to DeJong and others instead. We released 4 bullpen arms in July. The bullpen looks a lot different with Anderson and Pressly in it.

11. I sincerely, think the front office is doing a great job.Just being constructive for the future. :)


We'll agree to disagree on a lot of this... It's simply impossible to keep every single player on the 40 man. Limited spots, you know? All of them would have to be dropped at some point for injury or lack of performance in the case of Chargois. Brace yourselves, there's a huge 40 man roster crunch coming this winter. Other players that may have a moment of greatness in the future will be let go.
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#31 spycake

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:53 AM

So, Kirilloff for five years of a number three? If those numbers are correct, I do that every time given this roster. Every time. They have one starter under contract for next year. One.


Actually, by Fangraphs at least, Chisholm is ahead of Kirilloff. Other sources seem to still prefer Kirilloff, but no doubt he's had a tough season.

Also, Zac Gallen himself was only a 40 FV prospect preseason. I suppose there is still some question about whether he is for real going forward, or if he's a more marginal guy having a good run. In which case, he may ultimately not be any better than Thorpe or perhaps even Smelter, Dobnak, etc.

Do you swap Kirilloff at a low value point, for Gallen at a high value point? It would be tempting for sure.

#32 Vanimal46

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:00 AM

I am on record as liking the Pressly trade as he wasn't going to help us in 2018 and the FO had all off season to find someone with stuff that was at least close to what was lost.

They found a player in Marwin Gonzalaz to come close to replacing Escobar's production why couldn't they do that for the pen? If they would have then the Pressly trade wouldn't have looked so bad but by essentially not replacing that production then yes I agree that trade does look bad. It didn't have to look bad though.


There wasn't a reliever available in free agency last winter close to Pressly's caliber.
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#33 spycake

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:01 AM

Every front office has misses... Add this to the list. Time will tell whether Anderson can sustain an MLB career.

There was a lot of teeth gnashing last year over losing Derek Rodriguez... This year was utterly forgettable for Rodriguez.


I mentioned this in another thread recently, but Rodriguez's 2018 was pretty unsustainable by the numbers. Probably even moreso than Nick Blackburn and Scott Diamond, who at least got a lot of grounders.

Reliever performance can be pretty volatile too, but at least Anderson has the peripherals to back it up (and then some). And the well-respected and competitive Rays ponying up to trade for Anderson in a pennant race is an encouraging sign for him too.
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#34 alarp33

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:15 AM

 

There wasn't a reliever available in free agency last winter close to Pressly's caliber.

 

There were plenty available who were better than Pressly was as a Twin, which is what the applicable comparison would be. Since I'm guessing they wouldn't have traded him had they been able to unlock this dominate version of Pressly

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#35 drivlikejehu

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:15 AM

Everyone is smart in hindsight. I'd love to see links to all the posts decrying the Twins' trade of Anderson, when it actually happened.

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#36 Vanimal46

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:21 AM

Everyone is smart in hindsight. I'd love to see links to all the posts decrying the Twins' trade of Anderson, when it actually happened.


It was a blip on the radar. No one was mad or cared he was traded.

http://twinsdaily.co...s/?fromsearch=1
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#37 Riverbrian

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:22 AM

We'll agree to disagree on a lot of this... It's simply impossible to keep every single player on the 40 man. Limited spots, you know? All of them would have to be dropped at some point for injury or lack of performance in the case of Chargois. Brace yourselves, there's a huge 40 man roster crunch coming this winter. Other players that may have a moment of greatness in the future will be let go.


The preciousness of the 40 man roster space that you mention is exactly my point and reasoning. I am braced for the 40 man decisions to come this winter and it’s a good problem to have. I’m not so sure we had this good problem to have in previous years.

I don’t want to focus on Chargois specifically when I’m really talking broad concept fundamentals. We can get lost in Chargois because he was hurt and his release can be justified.
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#38 Vanimal46

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:35 AM

The preciousness of the 40 man roster space that you mention is exactly my point and reasoning. I am braced for the 40 man decisions to come this winter and it’s a good problem to have. I’m not so sure we had this good problem to have in previous years.

I don’t want to focus on Chargois specifically when I’m really talking broad concept fundamentals. We can get lost in Chargois because he was hurt and his release can be justified.


We can discuss the other players you wish were still on roster then.

Nick Burdi- this year he would have 10 IP as a Twin and placed on the 60 day IL. Are you still keeping him this winter over Duran, Alcala, or other RP options needing a 40 man roster spot?

Curtiss: Would another few MLB innings change his outcome? Would he still be on the 40 struggling with a 7.75 ERA in AAA?

How about the other players cut this year? Should they also be on the 40? Will there be a hindsight thread created for trading any of these players for nothing?

Mejia
Parker
Magill
Morin
Jay
Eades
Adams
Granite
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#39 USAFChief

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:38 AM

There were plenty available who were better than Pressly was as a Twin, which is what the applicable comparison would be. Since I'm guessing they wouldn't have traded him had they been able to unlock this dominate version of Pressly


He was really good the last year with the Twins, and he always had really really good stuff.

And it's "dominant," by the way. 🙂
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#40 alarp33

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:51 AM

 

He was really good the last year with the Twins, and he always had really really good stuff.

And it's "dominant," by the way.

 

He had a 3.40 ERA, 1.364 WHIP, and 127 ERA+

 

He was basically last years Ryne Harper. 

 

Yes, he did have good stuff, but Twins fans seem to forget he was never actually that great of pitcher here

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