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Front Page: "Unwritten Rule" Gets Max Kepler Hit By A Pitch

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#21 Dantes929

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:41 PM

If the pitcher admitted it I would say throwing a ball at someone at 93 mph should result in assault charges.Only slightly kidding here.At a minimum the pitcher should have been kicked out of the game.No, my opinion wouldn't change at all if it were a Twins pitcher.Being mad at someone for swinging at a 3-0 is so asinine it is mind boggling.Not quite as ridiculous as CC throwing at someone cuz they try bunting for a base hit but it is in the same ballpark.I don't think too many people agreed with Dozier in some of his rants in the past about unwritten rules.  https://www.espn.com...-brilliant-same

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#22 spanman2

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:51 PM

IMO showing up another team would be Cave getting said hit and then attempting to steal 2nd base or if you try to stretch it into a double.In the end your job is to get on base if you are Cave especially when you are trying to stay at the big league level.Obviously the issue in the 'unwritten rule' is the run differential and the count...if it were 3-2 and he grooves a fastball you swing!As a huge baseball fan I just don't get it why a team should take offense to a guy swinging 3-0 in this situation.Yes it is a 7 run lead but guess what...you had 8 innings to do something about it prior to him swinging at a 3-0 pitch.That is one part of the game that needs to get over itself.WIN TWINS!

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#23 Nick Nelson

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:51 PM

Complete embarrassment for Rangers. This is the dumbest notion of an "unwritten rule" I've ever seen on a baseball field. It's less insulting to sit there with the bat on your shoulder while the pitcher continues to miss the zone with an 8-run deficit? 

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#24 wavedog

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:54 PM

I commented on the game thread so won;t repeat. I will say I think it should have ended when Cave acknowledged his mistake at first base -he was either unaware of the rule or didn't realize the count?CJ Nitkowski on a radio show here in Dallas mentioned today, the Rangers were still shifting on Cave - so he has no problem with Cave swinging on the 3-0 pitch. If they are still playing full force why can't both teams? I mean otherwise just have a slaughter rule and call the game. No one is backing that Kepler should have been hit except Kelley.Hope he pitches again in the series and Kepler takes him deep.  

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#25 by jiminy

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:59 PM

 

re: "there are people who think the concept of sportsmanship is entirely outdated"

 

Since when is responding with violence to an unknowing violation of some obscure, dubious etiquette rule "sportsmanship"?

 

True sportsmanship would involve experienced players explaining to their younger teammates how to show respect for their opponents, and if a rookie unintentionally offended someone, having them apologize. Which is exactly what the Twins did.

 

Sportsmanship is not angrily trying to impose your will on others through violence and intimidation, especially if they meant no harm and/or did nothing wrong.

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#26 JLease

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:00 PM

 

I don't disagree with much of this, in theory. However, unwritten rule or not, Cave acknowledged it and apologized BEFORE Kepler even came to bat. So, if it were an unwritten rule, and it seemed it was, as Watkins seemed to be telling Cave that, and Cave had already taken responsibility for his 'grievous' behavior, that should have been the end of it. To then throw at the next batter after Cave already tipped his hat in compliance with said unwritten rule, was uncalled for. There was no reason, imo, to retaliate. Honestly, I don't like to see anyone being thrown at because a bad throw can truly injure a player, however, in this case, there seemed to be no reason for it even if you put stock in the unwritten rules. 

 

Yep. The pitcher is kind of a dumbass here, because you can't demand fidelity to unwritten rules if you ignore them yourself and the whole "hat tip" apology is one of the oldest ones out there.

 

And of course, traditionally when enforcing an unwritten rule against a teammate of the rule-breaker the pitcher never would throw their best fastball, nor would it ever get near the head. Nor do you wait multiple pitches to do it...are we sure this pitcher doesn't just suck? :P

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#27 etwink

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:03 PM

I wish we could just move on from the unwritten rule crap; it’s too dang complicated! I don’t recall anyone talking about this 25 years ago. Why? Because everyone knew the rules and followed them. If you broke a rule, you usually knew it and when it was addressed, everything was sorted on both sides. Nowadays, I’m convinced that 50% of the boys either have no idea what the rules are or don’t care. But every team seems to have a “designated enforcer” whose job it is to know the rules and inform people when they’ve been broken. But it’s clear that one team’s interpretation of the rules is different than others because there are more and more fights over stupid stuff - the Pirates/Reds brawl a couple weeks ago is case in point. People are different than they were 25 years ago. The game has changed; these childish rules that don’t allow a guy fighting for his MLB life to swing at strikes need to change as well.
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#28 Thegrin

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:05 PM

Just think.Without this breech of the "unwritten rules" we wouldn't be having this robust discussion.I love baseball:D


#29 NapoleonComplex

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:06 PM

Just checked the box score of the NYY/Cle game last night - no intentional HBP in the 8th while Cleveland ran up the score with 1 out. Apparently not everyone is keen on the unwritten rules.

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#30 JLease

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:08 PM

 

re: "there are people who think the concept of sportsmanship is entirely outdated"

 

Since when is responding with violence to an unknowing violation of some obscure, dubious etiquette rule "sportsmanship"?

 

True sportsmanship would involve experienced players explaining to their younger teammates how to show respect for their opponents, and if a rookie unintentionally offended someone, having them apologize. Which is exactly what the Twins did.

 

Sportsmanship is not angrily trying to impose your will on others through violence and intimidation, especially if they meant no harm and/or did nothing wrong.

 

So your issue is how sportsmanship is enforced in baseball?

 

Do you agree with the unwritten rule that you don't swing at a 3-0 pitch late in a blowout? And do you believe that's an appropriate display of sportsmanship?

 

I'm honestly curious what people think on some of this.


#31 JW24

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:23 PM

 

Complete embarrassment for Rangers. This is the dumbest notion of an "unwritten rule" I've ever seen on a baseball field. It's less insulting to sit there with the bat on your shoulder while the pitcher continues to miss the zone with an 8-run deficit? 

Competing for 9 innings is not unsportsmanlike, it is being a professional.

 

David Ortiz once started to walk to 1st base as a pitcher went into his motion on a 3-0 to show up the pitcher. That is much more disrespectful than taking a cut at a ball in the strike zone.

 

The vindictive fan in me hopes Kepler hits a homer tonight, stands in the box until it lands in the seats, and takes about 3 minutes to round the bases.

Edited by JW24, 16 August 2019 - 02:25 PM.

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#32 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:29 PM

I don't understand what the count has to do with any of it.
Is the team allowed to continue to compete, or not?
I can't comprehend why they are allowed to continue to compete if the count is 2-2, but not if it's 3-0.
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#33 SQUIRREL

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:31 PM

 

Hope he pitches again in the series and Kepler takes him deep.  

Now that is how I like to see baseball players retaliate.

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#34 Darius

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:31 PM

Absolutely have to plunk one of their guys tonight, IMO.

One AAAA batter swinging at another AAAA pitcher’s 3-0 pitch does not warrant hitting one of the best players in the league and opening him up to injury during a pennant race in late August.

Cave is trying to establish himself in the majors. It could mean millions of dollars for him and his family. Why the hell shouldn’t he take any cookie the pitcher gives him?

If the Rangers had a good player, I’d say throw at that guy. They’ll just have to pick someone else.

Edited by Darius, 16 August 2019 - 02:32 PM.

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#35 SQUIRREL

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:32 PM

 

Yep. The pitcher is kind of a dumbass here, because you can't demand fidelity to unwritten rules if you ignore them yourself and the whole "hat tip" apology is one of the oldest ones out there.

 

And of course, traditionally when enforcing an unwritten rule against a teammate of the rule-breaker the pitcher never would throw their best fastball, nor would it ever get near the head. Nor do you wait multiple pitches to do it...are we sure this pitcher doesn't just suck? :P

In other words ... have we all just made a mountain out of a molehill? :)

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#36 Dr. Beanpole

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:32 PM

Alright, let's go down this road:

 

If swinging 3-0 is unsportsmanlike, then both the Twins and Rangers are accepting the fact that the game is secured for the Twins. 

 

So should the pitcher just lob balls into the zone?

 

If the Rangers get a few runs back in the 9th and load the bases up, should they just stop swinging? The game was already decided for the Twins, so it's not fair that the Rangers win it after that.

 

Should the game be played after that altogether?

 

This isn't a timed game. Each team gets the opportunity to make 27 outs if they need it. The Rangers had only made 24 at that time. Unless Hunter Pence, the tying run in the 9th, would have let his bat rest on his shoulder and looked at strike 3, miss me with this "unwritten rule". 

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#37 raaschjt

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:33 PM

Real talk: no lead is safe with this bullpen. Take the base hit if you can get it.

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#38 VATwinsFan

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:39 PM

 

Just checked the box score of the NYY/Cle game last night - no intentional HBP in the 8th while Cleveland ran up the score with 1 out. Apparently not everyone is keen on the unwritten rules.

I heard Francona made Allen and Santana send written apologies to the Yankees for hitting HRs against a position player.

 

Or maybe not.

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#39 wavedog

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:40 PM

 

Yep. The pitcher is kind of a dumbass here, because you can't demand fidelity to unwritten rules if you ignore them yourself and the whole "hat tip" apology is one of the oldest ones out there.

 

And of course, traditionally when enforcing an unwritten rule against a teammate of the rule-breaker the pitcher never would throw their best fastball, nor would it ever get near the head. Nor do you wait multiple pitches to do it...are we sure this pitcher doesn't just suck? :P

Kelley is a bit of a red-ass - I remember when he was pitching for Washington last year the manager came to take him out and he pitched a fit and threw his glove down.Washington released him after that episode.Also about a month ago he was called in to pitch and hurt his arm warming-up and had to come out before throwing a pitch - he also reacted angrily then coming into the dugout and throwing his glove (with his good arm - lol ). So I am pretty sure this was on purpose.  


#40 Puckett34

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:51 PM

 

Until the game is over, it isn't over.

This. Cave is a marginal player scratching and clawing for playing time and his future beyond 2019.

 

Exhibit A for "it's not over, until its over":  https://www.espn.com...ameId=350710109

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