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Front Page: Twins Game Recap (8/11): Frustrating Loss Marred by Heartbreaking Moments

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#41 Nine of twelve

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:33 PM

When there is one out with a tie score in the bottom of the ninth you send the runner only if it would take a perfect play to get him. If the runner would be out on an average play you hold. Holding the runner makes it second and third with one out. Many, if not most, visiting managers will order an IBB or order the pitcher not to throw strikes in case the batter swings at pitches that are difficult to hit. Then you've got bases loaded, the infield and outfield play in, maybe with five infielders, and your odds are good. It is easy to see in retrospect that it was a major mistake by Diaz to send. It requires a certain skill to be able to read that play correctly and it seems that he may not possess that skill.

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#42 ashbury

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:41 PM

Two age-old rules of thumb point in the same direction in this case:

  • Don't make the second out at home
  • Play for the tie at home, for the win on the road
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So, in conclusion, what was your question again?


#43 Aggies7

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:51 PM

We have had at least 6 or 7 games where it could have turned the season completely around and we lost the game each and every time. I just doubt very much that this is our year.


Off the top of my head I can only think of two big games in the last month or so where the team trailed late and came back to win. One was the Sunday vs Oakland when they came back in the 9th to win, but that was after they allowed 4 runs in the final innings to fall behind. The other was the first game after the break in Cleveland where they trailed in the 7th and got a few clutch hits to win.

The come from ahead losses have been more frequent. A few when we just needed one more strike to win. The one game in the Oakland series and the one Yankees game. Both needed just one more out/strike. Then the inexplicable Miami loss. I’ll throw the late implosion against the Mets in there too. And then today, a great comback but couldn’t finish it. Every one of those 5 coulda shoulda been wins. Tough to give those away when the Indians never lose.
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#44 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:51 PM

Yesterday was Sunday, August 11.It was the 118th game of the year putting the Twins 73% of the way through the season.The Twins hit 0 home runs keeping their record-breaking season total at 228 home runs.They are now only 39 home runs behind the single-season MLB record.

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#45 Darius

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:37 PM

I just don’t the enfatuation with Baldelli anymore. The guy just isn’t a very good manager.

What happened to his coaching staff? Where is the Wes Johnson we were getting ready to build a statue for outside of Target field? Nobody is throwing the ball effectively on this team. His 3B coach has one job to do, and he apparently can’t do it. It’s time for Baldelli to stop getting the “yeah, but” from everyone and start taking some criticism. His gross mishandling of numerous situations in recent weeks has cost the Twins big time. I’m not far off from calling to give me Molitor back. Monitor wasn’t a great bullpen handler either, but at lest he displayed a modicum of aptitude for situational baseball from time to time. Baldelli, literally, botches nearly every decision in tight games. He looked like a genius when we were winning 12-3 every night, as anybody should.

That call to send the Adrianza from third in that game, in that situation, is fireable. It wasn’t even close. We’re always logging player WPA. What was the difference there between making that absolute bone-headed decision and taking 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and a reeling Brad Hand.

The division is over. We stand no chance against the Tribe the rest of the way. I could care less about a damn wildcard spot. This team can’t take care of business when it needs to, management can’t make the appropriate moves in game when it needs to, the FO can’t apparently can’t adequately assess a situation and get even respectable pitching to complement an all-world offense. We can’t even catch a break when we need one (two best players are injure during the biggest stretch of the season - cast-off Aaron Hicks stealing games st Target Field, seemingly every jettisoned relived in the last 5 years is lights out while we hung onto the garbage).

Just another year of being a Twins fan. Another gut punch. I honestly can’t decide, would I rather have a season like this one go down in flames in epic fashion, or have an average team from the jump without the buildup? Well, I can tell you I would’ve invested much less time and money, so I’m leaning with the matter at this point.

I’m sickened by this team right now. On to the Vikings to go through the same thing in a few months.
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#46 Darius

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:42 PM

Off the top of my head I can only think of two big games in the last month or so where the team trailed late and came back to win. One was the Sunday vs Oakland when they came back in the 9th to win, but that was after they allowed 4 runs in the final innings to fall behind. The other was the first game after the break in Cleveland where they trailed in the 7th and got a few clutch hits to win.

The come from ahead losses have been more frequent. A few when we just needed one more strike to win. The one game in the Oakland series and the one Yankees game. Both needed just one more out/strike. Then the inexplicable Miami loss. I’ll throw the late implosion against the Mets in there too. And then today, a great comback but couldn’t finish it. Every one of those 5 coulda shoulda been wins. Tough to give those away when the Indians never lose.

This is what’s so frustrating with being a fan of a cheapskate small-market club (and, yes, they could spend much, much more and be just fine financially). The wait and see approach with the roster every year. Instead of locking down solid bullpen/rostation peices, they threw things at the wall. The front office should never live down that they basically flushed a legit World Series contender this year with poor planning and inaction. When we get to end of the year, and we’re 3-4 out of the division, there will be dozens of losses you can point to.

This isn’t hindsight. I’m sure there is a record of me trumpeting this back in May.

This thing is over. Baledelli saying “the fight is still there,” says it all. The fact that he has to even say that gives away his confidence level.

Edited by Darius, 11 August 2019 - 09:46 PM.


#47 D.C Twins

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:53 PM

 

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"Never tell me the odds"

"So you're telling me there's a chance"

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#48 howeda7

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:58 AM

I figure the Twins had about a 50/50 chance of winning the game in the 9th if they hold the runner (20% chance Schoop comes through, 24% chance Kepler does if he fails, and 6% wild pitch/other). So if it would have been a bang/bang play fine. But seeing where he was when the ball hit the cutoff, it's inexcusable. 

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#49 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 03:15 AM

I figure the Twins had about a 50/50 chance of winning the game in the 9th if they hold the runner (20% chance Schoop comes through, 24% chance Kepler does if he fails, and 6% wild pitch/other). So if it would have been a bang/bang play fine. But seeing where he was when the ball hit the cutoff, it's inexcusable.


Actually it’s about 65-70% likely that they score a run with runners on second and third with one out. The average run expectancy with that situation is 1.4 runs.

#50 USAFChief

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 05:57 AM

One other thing...the lack of bullpen options bit the Twins again in this game.

Rogers pitched 2 innings the day before, and he hasn't been good when asked to come back the next day after a multi inning outing. In fact, ANY back to back situation has been a little dicey.

Small sample size, but still. His command wasn't good, and he wasn't hitting 97 like the day before.

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#51 Bavarian

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 06:06 AM

Wow, with one out you gamble when you've sent four baserunners on that laboring closer?Sac fly wins it.One out!

 

As a 3rd base coach, you need to know your player's capabilities and the situation.To see a guy thrown out by a mile in that scenario was embarrassing. 

 

And that was basically a two game swing since it was head-to-head.We win, we go up 2.Lose and we're tied.A big moment.It takes a lot to essentially gain two games on Cleveland at this point.That was a golden opportunity. 

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#52 rdehring

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 06:43 AM

I don't know what would have happened after that out at home, had he not sent him.But count me among those who would not have done so.The only Twin I might have considered sending there would have been Buxton.But with his speed he would have been well beyond third sooner that AD.

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#53 In My La-Z-boy

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 06:48 AM

Perspective is what is needed. I am more optimistic this morning, than last night. I would have totally agreed with darius last night on each and every point. This morning I am optimistic we get a day off - we hit the road - we re-group, and we forge ahead and make a run of it. I am saddened to start understanding this is not our year. But it probably never was, and is just our 1st year of an excellent window of opportunity coming. We don't have the pitching, and our in-game management, and our in-game execution isn't there in the crucial moments. We were out managed, and out executed yesterday. Not too mention out pitched. I am still having way more fun than 2011-2014, and if this season's results were reversed - our collective fans attitude would be just the opposite. Today we sit tied with our nemesis - we have alot to play for in Aug/Sept in 2019. I'll take it. I am not ready for football yet.

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#54 mikelink45

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:37 AM

Is there a place to find how many outs at home plate a team has made?It feels like we have had a lot recently - not just Adrianza, but Cron...

 


#55 bighat

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:41 AM

With 2 outs, I have absolutely zero problems with Diaz sending Adrianza there. The only issue I have was that there was just 1 out.

 

That said, you all can blame Diaz all you want. I personally blame yesterday's loss on Taylor Rogers. He's been great this year, and maybe he was over-worked, but if you give up 4 runs in 1/3 of an inning in a huge game, you failed. An absolutely dud of an effort by Rogers, who deservedly got the loss.


#56 Doomtints

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:42 AM

This was a boring game. The Twins were not hitting well.

 

Yes the 3rd base coach made a big Carlos Gomez-like blunder, but the Twins were only in that position because they'd been chasing pitches all day.

 

Personally I would not have marched Rogers out there two nights in a row in a non-save situation. This move reminded me of when Gardenhire kept showing the Yankees Latroy Hawkins in the 2003 ALDS. It worked well the first time, not so well after that.

Edited by Doomtints, 12 August 2019 - 07:43 AM.

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#57 Blake

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:54 AM

 

He isn't going to publicly admonish Diaz and rightfully so. 

 

Privately, he better at least bang the stapler real hard.:)

I"m willing to be Diaz didn't get much sleep last night.


#58 Blake

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:59 AM

What annoys me is, as a fan, I'm not paid to know better than to send Adrianza, yet, even I knew better.

 

Usually, I shrug stuff off, but some things I find to be inexcusable and sending Adrianza with only one out is definitely one of them.

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#59 nokomismod

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:59 AM

The Cleve's relay to get Ehire at home was exceptional. I thought sending him was the right call at first until I saw that 3B coach could already see stellar play and throw by LF and ball coming into all star Lindor's glove when he waved him home. Even with Schoop due up next, you have to hold him.

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#60 longstrangetrip

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 08:27 AM

Ok, it looks like it's almost unanimous that Diaz blundered on the send.I agree. But his call was in the heat of the moment and mistakes happen, so I give him a begrudging pass.But I'm wondering if anyone else here was at the game, and if so, why Tommy Watkins isn't being criticized too.With the shift on, Cleveland's first baseman was 25 feet off the bag.But for some unexplainable reason, Adrianza's lead on every pitch during Gonzalez's AB was only about half that.My group of four was screaming at Ehire to get a more aggressive lead, but we were in the third base boxes and the crowd was loud, so he stayed with his insufficient lead.If Adrianza had been properly leading off with the first baseman so far off the bag, he likely scores on the double even with the Tribe playing perfect defense...especially with the very high bounce the ball took off the fence. Shame on Ehire for not reading the situation better, and shame on Tommy Watkins for not doing his job.The first base coach is responsible for almost nothing except monitoring the baserunner's lead, and instead of doing that he is facing Gonzalez and clapping for him.  

 

Yes, Diaz made a bad call, but Watkins and Ehire's blunder is equally at fault for this loss. 

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