Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Eric Chavez

  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

Just realized he might be the perfect guy to bring in on a one year deal, he plays 3B and hits left handed, perhaps he could be insurance/platoon partner for Plouffe against tough righties?

I'd have to imagine he would cost less than Jamey Caroll to bring in. Then again, if he ends up with a good night tonight I could see the Yankees keeping him around as A-Rod insurance next year.

Maybe 1 year, 1.5-2 mil?

He doesn't solve the MI issues obviously, but does give us some nice insurance at 3B and a solid bat off the bench.

#2 Linus

Linus

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 268 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:08 PM

Pass. Signing him does little to make them better next year - spend all available dollars on pitching. I am a fan of Terry Ryan but I always hated when we signed 4-5 Chavez types that were clearly washed up and we ended up with no production but $15 mil in payroll wasted. See Rondell White, Tony Batista, et. al.

#3 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:23 PM

Pass. Signing him does little to make them better next year - spend all available dollars on pitching. I am a fan of Terry Ryan but I always hated when we signed 4-5 Chavez types that were clearly washed up and we ended up with no production but $15 mil in payroll wasted. See Rondell White, Tony Batista, et. al.


Chavez has a 845 OPS (125 OPS+) this year and has a career .818 OPS. That is washed up?

#4 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 399 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:23 PM

Eric Chavez in his prime ;) then yes....but now....no.

#5 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

Eric Chavez in his prime ;) then yes....but now....no.


Well in his prime he cost about 12 mil a year, now he would be about 10% of that, I mean its hard to ignore his production this year and its not like we would be counting on him to play every day, he just is a much better insurance plan for 3B then the other internal "options"

#6 Willihammer

Willihammer

    ice cream correspondent

  • Members
  • 2,973 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

If he'll sign for another 1yr/$900k, absolutely, yes. You could platoon him with Plouffe and pencil in a .850-.900 OPS at 3b.

problem is, the Yankees will pay him more than that. They won't even bat ARod against righthanders late game anymore.

#7 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 399 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

Eric Chavez in his prime ;) then yes....but now....no.


Well in his prime he cost about 12 mil a year, now he would be about 10% of that, I mean its hard to ignore his production this year and its not like we would be counting on him to play every day, he just is a much better insurance plan for 3B then the other internal "options"


He wouldnt be a bad insurance plan. He did have a good year. he would be a good bench asset. Right now im staring at his stats and remember how good of a player he could have been before injuries absolutely derailed his career. Would i throw him a 1 year 1.1 million offer at him? Sure, but im sure at this stage of his career he has made all the money he needs and would like to stay on a contending team to preserve his health playing a bench role. This is why i dont see him leaving the Yanks.

#8 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:40 PM

If he'll sign for another 1yr/$900k, absolutely, yes. You could platoon him with Plouffe and pencil in a .850-.900 OPS at 3b.

problem is, the Yankees will pay him more than that. They won't even bat ARod against righthanders late game anymore.

People are freaking out about the ARod thing, but its not going to be the norm for him in 2013, he is just in a slump now. He didn't have a great year by any means but still had a decent year at the plate, they are paying him to much money to PH for him on a regular basis.

I could see the Yankees bring back Chavez though as insurance, but who knows with the Yankees, I could also see them go out and try to find a young 3B to play while A-Rod DH's more or something.

#9 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:01 PM

Why would Chavez turn down a similar deal with the Yankees to sign with a team coming off back to back 90 loss seasons?

Love the idea, but Chavez will either find a starting job or sign with the Yankees again. Heck the Yankees might offer him more to reprise his roll from this year than some other team offers for a starting spot.

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

Why would Chavez turn down a similar deal with the Yankees to sign with a team coming off back to back 90 loss seasons?

Love the idea, but Chavez will either find a starting job or sign with the Yankees again. Heck the Yankees might offer him more to reprise his roll from this year than some other team offers for a starting spot.


Don't be so sure about the Yankees offering him much more money, the Yanks are slashing payroll over the next two years. Though its not like we are talking about a large amount, but the odds of him returning are pretty high, but you never know the Yanks could try to bring in a younger/longer term solution at 3B. I'm not sure Chavez will find a true starting spot from anyone due to injury history/issues but if he choose the Twins it might be one of his best shots to get the most at bats.

As far as the 90 loss thing...yeah..that is the tough part but ideally the Twins can start making a nice splash in free agency to at least appear more attractive to players.

#11 Lesser Dali

Lesser Dali

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 102 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

Although it is a nice thought to sign Eric Chavez, I think it is improbable and more likely impossible. Who would have thought that Chavez would have the year that he had. After seeing him play the last few years before this season it seemed like his power was sapped from him because of his chronic back issues. This season, he had a good offensive year and seemed to be able to hold his own at the hot corner. Chavez is almost 35, but needs much more maintenance and days off than Jim Thome did in his age 39/40 season. If I were Eric Chavez, I would stick with the Yankees. He will be a bench player, but that is best as I cannot believe he could up playing more than 100+ games, he plays in a ballpark that is offensive friendly and he might have a chance to win a World Championship. If he were to sign with Twins and wrestle away the starting 3B assignment from Plouffe, he would not last health wise, and most probably he would be on a losing team. The Situation he is in right now is the best for him, and hopefully being the Swan Song of his career (A World Championship)..

#12 Curt

Curt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 240 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:56 PM

Why might a player choose a 90+ loss team over a WS contender? "PT baby!" to quote Dick Vitale. If he still thinks he is starting material (regardless of whether he actually is or not) he might go where he thinks he can play. If it turns out he is right, it could lead to a bigger payday. If he thinks his starting days are behind him (and everyone besides him thinks they are), the Yanks are just the place to be.

#13 Willihammer

Willihammer

    ice cream correspondent

  • Members
  • 2,973 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

I would like to hear more about the question raised at the season ticket holder meeting re: giving Mauer time at 3b. Gardy answered as if it was something they had been considering; Mauer hadn't heard anything about it.

#14 joeboo_22

joeboo_22

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 173 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

I like Chavez as a player. However all signs point to him resigning with the Yankees. Plus there are other (better) teams out there that would be on the market for a 3B, and on top of it, how many wins does he bring in if he starts 45 games? Or even if he starts 110 games? I guess I just don't see it. There are holes on the team, and even if you think 3B is a hole, its #3 #4 on the list. It goes PItching, pitching, pitching, middle infield, pitching.

#15 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

Think some people are thinking Chavez as the starter.....NO but he would make a GREAT platoon with Trevor. Im all in on this.
There are several glaring weaknesses on this team other than starting pitching & you cannot ignore them & expect to get any better.
Chavez crushed lefties this year .298/.365/.543 in 245ABs w/16hr's. He's never hit lefties (even in his prime) & stil cannot (5 singles in 33ABs).
Plouffe crushed righties this year .242/.338/.573 in 124ABS w/12hr's. In a platoon, that's over a .900OPS.
Chavez is still solid defensively & playing 2/3 of time would allow Plouffe's challenged glove to move around the field in a utlity role again.
NY wont offer more than the 900K they did this yr. Double it & you've got a chance as Im sure Chavy would like to see if he can play again.
Problem IS....you actually need a manager that understands how to platoon correctly, so MN is screwed. Gardy would play Chavez everyday and say that Chavez 'hangs in there real good vs lefties'.
Great move if they have the guts to try.

#16 Fire Dan Gladden

Fire Dan Gladden

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 382 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

Great in theory, but probably not feasable. Players like Chavez still have value and tend to go where they have a chance to win. Money will probably not be his primary issue in deciding where to play. The Twins would probably have to greatly overpay markey value to get him ($3M per). 3B is down the list of problems for me, I would rather see that money go elsewhere.

#17 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:01 PM

Platoon players went out with the four man pitching staffs and iron man bullpens. Thee team has 7 players for the 6 OF/C/1B/DH positions. They have a fourth outfielder. Two thirdbase only types would not be productive. Moving Ploufe around would not work. Why do you think he was tried at third anyway?

#18 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:03 AM

Platoon players went out with the four man pitching staffs and iron man bullpens. Thee team has 7 players for the 6 OF/C/1B/DH positions. They have a fourth outfielder. Two thirdbase only types would not be productive. Moving Ploufe around would not work. Why do you think he was tried at third anyway?


How to find a spot for Chavez
1. Stop carrying a million guys in the pen.
2. Stop carrying three catchers.

Boom, problem solved.

#19 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:59 AM

Platoon players went out with the four man pitching staffs and iron man bullpens. Thee team has 7 players for the 6 OF/C/1B/DH positions. They have a fourth outfielder. Two thirdbase only types would not be productive. Moving Ploufe around would not work. Why do you think he was tried at third anyway?


How to find a spot for Chavez
1. Stop carrying a million guys in the pen.
2. Stop carrying three catchers.

Boom, problem solved.



Needed so many bullpen arms due to starters who were only going a few innings before imploding. So they need to find pitchers who can consistently pitch through the seventh inning to not need so many bullpen arms.
In case you missed a few games this year, catchers number 1 and 2 were also your backup first basemen, DH and outfielder. Doumit played 22 games in the outfield, 48 as DH. Mauer 30 games at 1st, 42 at DH. If they are combining to spend the equivalent of a full season away from behind the plate. There needs to be a third catcher.

Edited by old nurse, 14 October 2012 - 09:09 AM.


#20 Thegrin

Thegrin

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 554 posts
  • LocationMinneapolis

Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:41 AM

What would signing Chavez, Youkilis or any other experienced 3rd baseman mean ? Trevor Plouffe at 2nd base ? The mind boggles at the thought.

#21 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:30 AM

Minnesota will carry two backup infielders as they do next year. Comes down to.....do you want Eduardo Escobar or Eric Chavez?
There is room on the roster.
Nobody is saying he's the everyday player......against righthanded pitching.
You dont need 13 pitchers if you allow your pitchers to get to 110 pitches rather than the 95 Rick Anderson allows. Got a feeling that was discussed in his re-hiring. Old way isnt working, time to catch up to the other 28teams (COL was inexcuseable). Diamond 8 games over 100 pitches but only one over 102. DeVires 3 times over 100, 7 times in 90s......as bad as the pitching was/is, there is no reason for 13 pitchers.

#22 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 14 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

Minnesota will carry two backup infielders as they do next year. Comes down to.....do you want Eduardo Escobar or Eric Chavez?
There is room on the roster.
Nobody is saying he's the everyday player......against righthanded pitching.
You dont need 13 pitchers if you allow your pitchers to get to 110 pitches rather than the 95 Rick Anderson allows. Got a feeling that was discussed in his re-hiring. Old way isnt working, time to catch up to the other 28teams (COL was inexcuseable). Diamond 8 games over 100 pitches but only one over 102. DeVires 3 times over 100, 7 times in 90s......as bad as the pitching was/is, there is no reason for 13 pitchers.


I don't think anybody is saying it's a bad idea.

I think people are saying it's pretty unrealistic, not to mention ON's excellent point (which I've mentioned before, elsewhere) that true platoons are becoming more and more rare as pitching staffs grow.

#23 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:58 PM

Soooo...now there is speculation that A-Rod gets traded this off-season (To the Marlins), if that happens I can't see any way whatsoever the Yankees feel comfortable heading into 2013 with Chavez as the everyday 3B or anything close to it.

Now that doesn't mean they still wouldn't welcome him back, but I do think there is a good chance they try to bring in a young 3B to replace A-Rod/Pencil him in as the every day guy.

Again, their are a lot of things working against the Twins in this situation, but perhaps Chavez could see this as his best shot to get some solid at bats in a good baseball town on a team that could actually end up surprising people next season.

Either way, IMHO its def worth exploring. Keep in mind he would also provide some depth at the 1st base/DH spot as well in case one of Morneau/Parmelee/Doumit gets injured/struggles-Parmelee

#24 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 4,956 posts

Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:11 AM

I'm not totally opposed to this idea.

FWIW, in the Handbook we have Chavez getting a 1-year deal for about $1M. He won't be brought back by anyone as a full-time player, or at least not without a significant discount. There is no evidence he can stay healthy as a full time player.

Does it make sense for the Twins to sign him as a complement to Plouffe? Yes.
Could they afford him? Probably, though they have higher priorities.
Would Chavez sign with the Twins? If it means he gets a fulltime platoon job, hell yes. Playing behind Plouffe presents lots more opportunities than playing behind ARod.

The biggest reason I can come up with for not doing so is that it essentially pigeon holes Plouffed into a 1/3 platoon role at third base. He has hit left-handers considerably better than right-handers, but I'm hesitant to limit his role just yet. I suppose they could bring Chavvy in to kind of be a platoon, still giving Plouffe about half of the at-bats vs RHs. But I'm not sure Chavez would be as interested in that.

I do kind of like the idea if they could land him.

BTW, just to reiterate, the only role I think Chavez could handle is the strong side of a platoon. Not only should teams be worried about his health, but he also has shown zero ability to hit LHs at this point. His impressive stats this year hide that almost all of those at-bats were aganst right-handed pitchers. He had just 39 AB against LHs. He had just five hits. And none of them were for extra-bases.

#25 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,788 posts

Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:12 AM

I'm also not against the idea... If the team could land him, which I doubt. As a platoon player on the cheap, he should have plenty of offers that would allow him to go to a contender.

#26 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,134 posts

Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

I'm not totally opposed to this idea.

FWIW, in the Handbook we have Chavez getting a 1-year deal for about $1M. He won't be brought back by anyone as a full-time player, or at least not without a significant discount. There is no evidence he can stay healthy as a full time player.

Does it make sense for the Twins to sign him as a complement to Plouffe? Yes.
Could they afford him? Probably, though they have higher priorities.
Would Chavez sign with the Twins? If it means he gets a fulltime platoon job, hell yes. Playing behind Plouffe presents lots more opportunities than playing behind ARod.

The biggest reason I can come up with for not doing so is that it essentially pigeon holes Plouffed into a 1/3 platoon role at third base. He has hit left-handers considerably better than right-handers, but I'm hesitant to limit his role just yet. I suppose they could bring Chavvy in to kind of be a platoon, still giving Plouffe about half of the at-bats vs RHs. But I'm not sure Chavez would be as interested in that.

I do kind of like the idea if they could land him.

BTW, just to reiterate, the only role I think Chavez could handle is the strong side of a platoon. Not only should teams be worried about his health, but he also has shown zero ability to hit LHs at this point. His impressive stats this year hide that almost all of those at-bats were aganst right-handed pitchers. He had just 39 AB against LHs. He had just five hits. And none of them were for extra-bases.


My ideal plan would be to only "sit" Plouffe against tough righties, so maybe once or twice a week, I think Plouffe has the potential to improve his at bats against righties, his average isn't much worse and he was still able to hit 12 HR off them this year, I see no reason why he couldn't improve against them overall. But when he faces the Greinkes/Verlanders/Scherzers of the world he should sit (.452, .467, .120 OPS in his career against those guys) in fact maybe we should just have him sit against all Detroit pitchers haha

However if Plouffe does end up struggling more then we like, then perhaps you have Chavez start 2-3 times a week for him instead of 1-2. You are right though, Chavez brings zero value against LHP but that isn't a real huge issue IMO, since as a whole the Twins hit LHP pretty well.

Chavez also seems like a nice bat off the bench as well, I certainly would prefer him hitting for Carroll late in the game rather then Mastrionni, Casilla or whatever other light hitting MI they have on the bench.