Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Recent Blogs

Photo

Front Page: How Soon Could Top Prospect Brusdar Graterol Debut?

  • Please log in to reply
82 replies to this topic

#61 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,244 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:13 PM

Graterol's not getting to 120 no matter what they do. By the time he got stretched out, the minor league season would almost be over.

And regardless of whether he gets to 120 or 80 or whatever, he's going to be on an innings limit next year. So you might as well use him for the best leverage you can.


I'd think they could get him pretty close to 120 if they sent him to play fall or winter ball somewhere.

#62 Jham

Jham

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 2,281 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:17 PM

We get a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for those 3 today. Unfortunately in Dec '17 we weren't what we are today - we never heard of Arraez - Jay was a top pick we still had hope for, and Granite was an exciting up and coming contact/speedster guy. Prospects are just that, prospects. Go get a stud starter is an easy decision for an Astros team coming off a title, with alot of young controlled starters, and still plenty of prospects. When we win it all this year, I expect we'll feel more comfortable trading away some good prospects this winter for stud starters too.


Ehh... we expected to be good last year, and this was supposed to be the year we're could add even more. my point is you have to tru to get better whenever you can, because you can't get it all done by waiting for 1 trade deadline.
  • In My La-Z-boy likes this

#63 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 26,806 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:35 PM

 

From the link:

 

"The 2017 midseason KATOH+ projections estimate that Granite will contribute 6.8 fWAR through his six team-controlled MLB seasons, while Gordon will accumulate 6.3 worth of fWAR across his six seasons."

 

And this is why I seldom visit Fangraphs. Zach Granite. 

 

 

 

I hope to heaven we didn't actually turn down that trade. That can't be correct, can it?

  • Mike Frasier Law, rdehring and In My La-Z-boy like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#64 Jham

Jham

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 2,281 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:39 PM

From the link:

"The 2017 midseason KATOH+ projections estimate that Granite will contribute 6.8 fWAR through his six team-controlled MLB seasons, while Gordon will accumulate 6.3 worth of fWAR across his six seasons."

And this is why I seldom visit Fangraphs. Zach Granite.



I hope to heaven we didn't actually turn down that trade. That can't be correct, can it?


I believe that was the year Gordon tore up the 1st half, granite was named our MiLB hitter of the year and Jay was a no.1 pick? Still... grrrr...

#65 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Member
  • 31,689 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:41 PM

From the link:

"The 2017 midseason KATOH+ projections estimate that Granite will contribute 6.8 fWAR through his six team-controlled MLB seasons, while Gordon will accumulate 6.3 worth of fWAR across his six seasons."

And this is why I seldom visit Fangraphs. Zach Granite.



I hope to heaven we didn't actually turn down that trade. That can't be correct, can it?


Yet you visit twins daily, where they make similar rankings. Heaven forbid someone is wrong about predicting the future....
  • ashbury and Mike Frasier Law like this

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#66 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,244 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 03:06 PM

Yet you visit twins daily, where they make similar rankings. Heaven forbid someone is wrong about predicting the future....


This is why I only visit Miss Cleo.
  • ashbury, Mike Sixel and kenbuddha like this

#67 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 26,806 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 09 August 2019 - 03:12 PM

 

I believe that was the year Gordon tore up the 1st half, granite was named our MiLB hitter of the year and Jay was a no.1 pick? Still... grrrr...

By that time there were already questions about Gordon's offense, Jay was already looking like a reliever at best, but likely a bust, and Zach Granite was never, ever going to be a MLB regular, at least on a good team. Zero power OFers don't hold onto jobs long.

 

That's why I have trouble believing that was the ask from Pittsburgh. 

 

And another reminder why I trade minor leaguers for big leaguers at the drop of a hat. Particularly a big leaguer with Cole's arm.

 

 

  • Vanimal46, Battle ur tail off and In My La-Z-boy like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#68 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 26,806 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 09 August 2019 - 03:14 PM

 

Yet you visit twins daily, where they make similar rankings. Heaven forbid someone is wrong about predicting the future....

They do "KATOH" rankings on Twins Daily? Dang, I need to visit the minor league page more than twice a year or so, I guess.

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#69 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Member
  • 31,689 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 03:28 PM

They do "KATOH" rankings on Twins Daily? Dang, I need to visit the minor league page more than twice a year or so, I guess.


The guy that invented KATOH was hired by a team a couple years ago.... So I'm guessing that's the only spot they do them now.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#70 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,939 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:27 PM

 

Graterol's not getting to 120 no matter what they do. By the time he got stretched out, the minor league season would almost be over.

 

And regardless of whether he gets to 120 or 80 or whatever, he's going to be on an innings limit next year. So you might as well use him for the best leverage you can.

Man, back on my soap box. I agree with you about using him however we can and right now it is looking like relief but I really hate that innings limit things.60 one year followed by 80 and then 100 and so on. As far as I know this way of building endurance was made up by some guy out of thin air since I have never found anything to support it empirically. First of all innings aren't created equally.Secondly, throw 60 or 80 innings ore whatever, then take 6 months off, then build up arm strength again, how did what happened the previous year build anything up? Thirdly, teams that babytheir pitchers and teams that don't have about the same amount of injuries or does any one think the Twins have dealt with fewer arm problems for their pitchers than anyone else?Fourthly, Bert Blyleven threw over 220 innings at age 19 and didn't throw under 230 innings for the next 10 years.. 

If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

#71 Jham

Jham

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 2,281 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:53 PM

By that time there were already questions about Gordon's offense, Jay was already looking like a reliever at best, but likely a bust, and Zach Granite was never, ever going to be a MLB regular, at least on a good team. Zero power OFers don't hold onto jobs long.

That's why I have trouble believing that was the ask from Pittsburgh.

And another reminder why I trade minor leaguers for big leaguers at the drop of a hat. Particularly a big leaguer with Cole's arm.


agree. of course Jay and Gordon were no. 1 picks... still would have been nice...

#72 Danchat

Danchat

    Pro Bowl Armchair QB

  • Member
  • 5,731 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 05:30 PM

 

From the link:

 

"The 2017 midseason KATOH+ projections estimate that Granite will contribute 6.8 fWAR through his six team-controlled MLB seasons, while Gordon will accumulate 6.3 worth of fWAR across his six seasons."

 

And this is why I seldom visit Fangraphs. Zach Granite. 

 

 

 

I hope to heaven we didn't actually turn down that trade. That can't be correct, can it?

In hindsight, we probably should have traded high on most Terry Ryan prospects. Though I never quite understood the hype on Granite, 


#73 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Cooperstown

  • Member
  • 6,705 posts

Posted 09 August 2019 - 06:00 PM

In hindsight, we probably should have traded high on most Terry Ryan prospects. Though I never quite understood the hype on Granite,


I understood it quite well. HR hitters make $$$. Slap singles hitters usually don’t.

#74 Shaitan

Shaitan

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,511 posts

Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:54 PM

 

I can see him coming handy as a long-man in the playoffs.

I hope there's no need for a long-man in the playoffs.

  • ashbury likes this

#75 Shaitan

Shaitan

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,511 posts

Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:56 PM

 

Graterol with 101 innings last year, 53 innings do far this year. They'd like to get him to 120 this year is think.

 

The multi-innings use is an interesting twist on this.

 

As long as he doesn't end up another Neftali Feliz, I'm fine with shifting him back and forth. I'm more concerned about his injury history at this point.

  • Mike Frasier Law and jkcarew like this

#76 Shaitan

Shaitan

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,511 posts

Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:58 PM

Reading this thread, people have already appointed him the 2001 KRod, when he's more likely to be the 2019 Fernando Romero at this point. 

 

I hope he gets called up and I hope he makes an impact. But it's foolish to assume he'll be Chapman when he's never thrown an MLB pitch.


#77 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Moderator
  • 18,111 posts

Posted 12 August 2019 - 01:09 PM

 

Reading this thread, people have already appointed him the 2001 KRod, when he's more likely to be the 2019 Fernando Romero at this point. 

 

I hope he gets called up and I hope he makes an impact. But it's foolish to assume he'll be Chapman when he's never thrown an MLB pitch.

I wouldn't assume he's K-Rod or Chapman either, but if he's hitting 101 MPH right now, I'd be more confident in him than Romero who topped out at 98.


#78 jkcarew

jkcarew

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,892 posts

Posted 12 August 2019 - 02:01 PM

 

The multi-innings use is an interesting twist on this.

 

As long as he doesn't end up another Neftali Feliz, I'm fine with shifting him back and forth. I'm more concerned about his injury history at this point.

Yes, the injuries, whether major or minor, have always been a factor in every single professional season Graterol has had. The question is not so much "what will the Twins be willing to try with Graterol?"...the question is more..."how can you best use him before he breaks down?" To assume you can ask him to handle even a #5-type load of 20+ starts (say 135-150 innings) in 2020...and then still have him available and effective in the advent of a post-season...that seems unreasonably optimistic...regardless of what happens this fall.

Edited by jkcarew, 12 August 2019 - 03:01 PM.


#79 Thegrin

Thegrin

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 1,123 posts
  • LocationRipon, CA

Posted 12 August 2019 - 03:21 PM

Remember the 2002 World Series ?All I remember was a 20 year old Rookie mowing down the batters. 

Francisco Rodriguez.What a pleasure that was to watch (and I loathe the Angels).

 

Maybe thats what Brusdar Graterol can do for us ?Maybe ?:)


#80 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Cooperstown

  • Member
  • 6,705 posts

Posted 12 August 2019 - 03:33 PM

Remember the 2002 World Series ? All I remember was a 20 year old Rookie mowing down the batters.
Francisco Rodriguez. What a pleasure that was to watch (and I loathe the Angels).

Maybe thats what Brusdar Graterol can do for us ? Maybe ? :)


20 year Francisco Rodriguez spent April through August in AA and AAA. 80 IP worth. Proving he could get good hitters out. Not half a season on the DL and half in AA.