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Front Page: Buxton’s Body and Cave’s Opportunity

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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 09:41 AM

I'd be all for bringing them up, but Larnach is striking out 33% of the time in AA, and Kirilloff isn't exactly doing great down there either. So I'd anticipate scuffles in MLB from them that could likely last through September and October, which sort of nullifies the value of calling them up now.

Given our roster, I don't think Cave needs to play all that much anyway. So I'm not that desperate to find someone better than Cave at the moment.


Fair, but if Buxton is hurt, Cave will play a lot, I'd guess. Someone will, at least. It's too bad Wade is hurt, at least he could have gotten a look. Or Rooker, but I've always had my quotations about him.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#22 Darius

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 09:43 AM

I get frustrated with Byron's unwillingness to recognize that making the ESPN highlights isn't worth being on the IL for 10 days or worse. The rest of his team needs him to stay healthy and that may mean making smarter choices about contact with the wall.
Not sure if this is Rocco's job or Nelson's job to pull him aside and say "We love the effort, but we need you on the field. Turn it down from 11"

I vehemently disagree with this take. I hate all of this reactionary stuff going around the media right now.

You do not tell Byron Buxton to quit playing hard. Once he starts thinking out there, things go wrong (see Cave, Jake).

Also, his defense is what makes him great. Take away those great catches and what are you left with? An average outfielder?

How many of his injuries have actually happened as a result of contact with the wall (everyone seems to focus on that)? He’s fouled a ball of his foot and gotten hit by a pitch, should we tell him to stand at the outside edge of the batters box and stop swinging the bat?

How many Twins players have hit the IL this year? CJ Cron stands at first base and hit the IL. Nelson Cruz doesn’t play defense at all and hit the IL. Eddie Rosario for rolling his ankle. Mitch Garver for getting ran into at home plate. Injuries happen for a number of reasons. Some players are injury prone - wall or no wall.

It’s an instinctual thing that you can’t control....and there should be no attempt to control it. Let him play baseball the way he currently plays, that’s what makes him great. Nearly all of his injuries have been flukes that have nothing to do with crashing into a wall.

Part of me wants to see him cut back for a few games. I don’t think he should, I just want to see the same reactionary people crying “stop trying so hard,” start flipping out in the other direction. There will be the time when he lets a ball land on the warning track or in front of him that costs the Twins a game. I highly doubt the same media and fan board folks will say, “good, I didn’t want him to get hurt, who cares about that game.” Especially if we lose the division by a game or it costs a game at Yankee Stadium in the playoffs.

Edited by Darius, 06 August 2019 - 10:00 AM.

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#23 Darius

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 09:57 AM

Rooker is also currently hurt, so he's not an option right now either.

If you are saying no to Kirilloff and Larnach, your options are probably de Aza, Barnes, or Wiel...


I’m not saying that I’m saying no to Kirilloff or Larnach. The front office will certainly say no to Kirilloff or Larnach (especially as a regular player until Buxton gets back). I’d bet anything I own on that.

They’d not only be rushing them along (Kirilloff certainly isn’t ready), but they’d have to jettison someone like Poppen, Thorpe, Diplan, Eades, Gonsalves, Romero from the 40-man and put Kirilloff or Larnach on, which I don’t see happening (not a big deal with De Aza who they can just designate if need be).

#24 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:13 AM

Fair, but if Buxton is hurt, Cave will play a lot, I'd guess. Someone will, at least. It's too bad Wade is hurt, at least he could have gotten a look. Or Rooker, but I've always had my quotations about him.


Even with Buxton out, though, we've got Marwin for corner OF duty, plus we've put Arraez out there, and it wouldn't kill us to do the same with Adrianza as long as his bat is solid.

We may only need to play Cave when we give Kepler or Rosario a day off.

#25 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:22 AM

Even with Buxton out, though, we've got Marwin for corner OF duty, plus we've put Arraez out there, and it wouldn't kill us to do the same with Adrianza as long as his bat is solid.

We may only need to play Cave when we give Kepler or Rosario a day off.

I'm not really thinking about anything but October with these posts...... I'd want one of the young guys available, and having some experience, if Buxton is hurt. I get all your arguments, but I'll never forget the Nationals shutting down Strasburg his rookie year, because "there will always be more chances".

Edited by Mike Sixel, 06 August 2019 - 10:22 AM.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#26 nokomismod

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:26 AM

 

Similar to what the Twins did with Cuddyer in 2002, although Cuddy got a taste of MLB in late 2001. He only had like 80 games in AAA before getting the call up to play instead of the Mohr/Buchanan/Kielty pu-pu-platter. 

Exactly. It sounds like those that are more in tune to Larnach's development think he's still not ready. He is 22 and looked so good last year in the College WS.

Larnach is the same age as Kubel was when he got the callup.

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#27 jkcarew

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:22 AM

The backup outfielder debate....if he performs like a starter, we want him in the lineup every day instead of whichever starter is slumping that week. If he doesn't perform immediately, we want any number of other minor-leaguers and/or prospects to replace him.

 

This isn't 2018 where we were forced to play Robbie Grossman. With the make-up of the 2019 club, Cave isn't going to have to play anywhere close to every day, until/unless Rosario or Kepler were to go down. Hope that doesn't happen...but, until it does, it's probably a good bet that Rocco is fine with options like Gonzalez, Cave, Arraez, Adrianza...and doesn't feel like he needs to take still-developing guys with zero major league experience and plop them into the middle of a pennant race. Doing that...or going with a guy like Wade, who is a below-average offensive player in the league he's already playing in...are desperate actions that could be warranted down the line, But we're not there yet, and I hope we don't get there.

Edited by jkcarew, 06 August 2019 - 11:22 AM.


#28 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:38 AM

Larnach is the same age as Kubel was when he got the callup.


Of course, Kubel had just hit for a 1.119 OPS at AA, then .958 at AAA before his call-up.

Larnach has a .773 so far at AA.
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#29 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:45 AM

I'm not really thinking about anything but October with these posts...... I'd want one of the young guys available, and having some experience, if Buxton is hurt. I get all your arguments, but I'll never forget the Nationals shutting down Strasburg his rookie year, because "there will always be more chances".


Seems quite a bit different than the Strasburg situation to me, I guess. Strasburg was dominating MLB, and these guys aren't exactly doing all that great at AA (not poorly, but modest enough to question their MLB readiness).
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#30 Danchat

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:52 AM

It's weird that other teams bring up young phenoms.... Why can't Minnesota do that with the OF? I'm pretty sure their current 2B is about their age. This is a world series type year. Not a year to sit back and be conservative, Imo.

Our young phenom’s name is Luis Arraez.

The problem is, everyone’s hurt, or we might be seeing Raley or Rooker getting a shot in the outfield. I would give Cave a fair shake, let him get more time with Rowson and Rudy to see if they can get him back to where he was last year.

I’d like to see Zander Wiel get a chance, but he shouldn’t be playing CF.

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#31 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:57 AM

 

Our young phenom’s name is Luis Arraez.

The problem is, everyone’s hurt, or we might be seeing Raley or Rooker getting a shot in the outfield. I would give Cave a fair shake, let him get more time with Rowson and Rudy to see if they can get him back to where he was last year.

I’d like to see Zander Wiel get a chance, but he shouldn’t be playing CF.

 

Cave shouldn't play CF either, so I'm not sure why that matters.

 

I don't know what Arraez has to do with this discussion......

 

There is a difference between "the guys in AA aren't ready", and "the guys in AA shouldn't be up to start their clock". I was reading some of the resistance as the second.....if all the resistance is the first, that makes more sense in a potential WS year......but that's not how some of the posts read to me.

 

But let's be honest about Cave, even is he hits, he's a pretty mediocre (at best) fielder for some reason. I thought Cave was a fine 4th OFer last year, but something isn't working this year.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#32 Riverbrian

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:57 PM

 

It's weird that other teams bring up young phenoms.... Why can't Minnesota do that with the OF? I'm pretty sure their current 2B is about their age. This is a world series type year. Not a year to sit back and be conservative, Imo.

 

Team context makes these decisions for you and it isn't hard to predict. 

 

The Twins didn't have to call up Cave to fill Buxton's spot. If Arraez can play OF (and he can), the team has the option of calling up Nick Gordon to fill Buxton's spot. And of course, Marwin can play OF so again... Gordon could have been the choice when Buxton went down with an injury with Marwin playing more OF. 

 

It doesn't have to be OF replacing an OF under our current team context and I'm pretty sure it's not. 

 

I'm quite certain that they determined Cave to be the best option to take Buxton's roster spot based on how Cave was performing in Rochester and based on how Cave performed last year. I think it's possible that the front office believes in Cave more than some of the Twinsdaily crowd. 

 

 

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#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:10 PM

 

Team context makes these decisions for you and it isn't hard to predict. 

 

The Twins didn't have to call up Cave to fill Buxton's spot. If Arraez can play OF (and he can), the team has the option of calling up Nick Gordon to fill Buxton's spot. And of course, Marwin can play OF so again... Gordon could have been the choice when Buxton went down with an injury with Marwin playing more OF. 

 

It doesn't have to be OF replacing an OF under our current team context and I'm pretty sure it's not. 

 

I'm quite certain that they determined Cave to be the best option to take Buxton's roster spot based on how Cave was performing in Rochester and based on how Cave performed last year. I think it's possible that the front office believes in Cave more than some of the Twinsdaily crowd. 

 

I don't understand your post. Because it reads like you are saying the Twins' know best (which they most certainly do most of the time), and we should not discuss doing things differently......Of course they think Cave is the right player right now, or else someone else would be up. 

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#34 Doomtints

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:35 PM

With this team hitting as they are, I wouldn't bother with someone like Cave for even a second. Bring up a good defender until Buxton and/or Astudillo come back. Cave is neither a good defender nor a good hitter.

 

Now I will say that Cave is "good enough" to be the emergency fill in guy, particularly if he gets along well with everybody, it's just not the choice I would make. With a dozen guys on the team who can hit, just bring in a good defender who isn't going to be a liability out there.

Edited by Doomtints, 06 August 2019 - 01:39 PM.

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#35 Riverbrian

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:53 PM

I don't understand your post. Because it reads like you are saying the Twins' know best (which they most certainly do most of the time), and we should not discuss doing things differently......Of course they think Cave is the right player right now, or else someone else would be up.


I should have continued on.

The entire 40 man are options under current team context. The club has to be fairly certain that Larnach or Kiriloff will indeed out perform the current 40 man options before they start adding players to the 40 man and therefore burning options/starting service time when they don’t need to. Astudillo could come back... I don’t know when but he could be back soon and now Larnach is places on the 40 man for a 2 week stint before heading back to the minors.

Before you Acuna, Tatis or Vladimir Jr a Larnach you have to be certain that they will be Acuns, Tatis or Vlad Jr like.

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#36 jorgenswest

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 02:14 PM

I would think Cave is on the roster until they need a 13th pitcher. I don’t think they are sending down Arraez. Who else would they send out or DFA?

I don’t want to add a guy to the 40 when they are two short starts or extra inning games away from needing another pitcher.
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#37 SpicyGarvSauce

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 02:28 PM

This wasn't really an article worth writing. Cave isn't a very good major league baseball player, I don't care what he did last year. He isn't very good. His defense has been atrocious in the outfield, and if you aren't hitting, you need to at least provide something in the way of defense. He has done and is doing neither.

 

At this point, the Twins need to roll with Rosario/Kepler/Gonzalez in the outfield, Sano at 3rd base, and Cron at 1st base. Sprinkle in Sano at 1st every now and then, but other than that, Cave should not be seeing the field on a regular basis.


#38 nokomismod

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 03:29 PM

 

Of course, Kubel had just hit for a 1.119 OPS at AA, then .958 at AAA before his call-up.

Larnach has a .773 so far at AA.

Point taken and thank you Spycake.


#39 ewen21

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 05:06 PM

Great outfielders don't get constantly injured trying to make plays. They make the plays and keep on playing

Collisions are not what makes him a great fielder. His speed makes him a great fielder.
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#40 twins_89

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 06:02 PM

Kirilloff and Larnach are on track to make it to the majors next season, but so far neither has even 300 AB about A ball so the chances of them playing with the Twins this season is extremely small. The guy that I think will make an appearance is Rooker. If Cave doesn't show much in the next couple of weeks he could well fall behind Rooker (when he gets back from the IL). 




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