Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

Article: Buyer Beware: Avoiding a Chris Archer Trade

  • Please log in to reply
126 replies to this topic

#101 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:31 PM

 

Can't tell if this is a troll? Teams only play 1 catcher each game. 

Rotation?, One at DH?, maybe they don't sign Cruz and spend the money elsewhere like bullpen?

 

But I get it, hope is more important than trying to get results. I just disagree with that.

 


#102 drivlikejehu

drivlikejehu

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,187 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:33 PM

 

Rotation?, One at DH?, maybe they don't sign Cruz and spend the money elsewhere like bullpen?

 

But I get it, hope is more important than trying to get results. I just disagree with that.

 

Yeah, the Twins front office prefers losing to winning, they are paid under the table by the other orgs.

  • alarp33 likes this

If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin'.


#103 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,295 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:33 PM

 

Rotation?, One at DH?, maybe they don't sign Cruz and spend the money elsewhere like bullpen?

 

But I get it, hope is more important than trying to get results. I just disagree with that.

 

So now the team is in a better spot had they traded for a Catcher who isn't playing as well as the one they currently have and not signed Cruz? 

 

Sorry I brought up the Realmuto name, I thought by now people would be ok admitting its a good thing the Twins avoided that

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#104 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:35 PM

 

 

Yeah there's a good chance he is in AAA (or traded), Castro is your backup and Lewis is playing in Miami's farm system and the Twins with what-we-know-now are in no better shape at the current moment.

Or since this front office loves position flexibility they keep Garver because he has played OF and 1B and Castro hasn't, but of course we will never know.


#105 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 25,732 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:36 PM

 

So now the team is in a better spot had they traded for a Catcher who isn't playing as well as the one they currently have and not signed Cruz? 

 

Sorry I brought up the Realmuto name, I thought by now people would be ok admitting its a good thing the Twins avoided that

None of that has played out yet, and it's tough to argue the Twins would be worse off with Realmuto.

 

There were people crowing about avoiding Verlander, too.

 

Can you point me to your post where you predicted, at the time Realmuto was traded, that Garver would have better offensive stats in late July, 2019? Otherwise, crowing about it now is sort of...hindsight-ish, no?

 

Or if we're going to do this, what was your opinion of the Pressly trade, at the time?

 

 

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#106 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,295 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:40 PM

 

None of that has played out yet, and it's tough to argue the Twins would be worse off with Realmuto.

 

There were people crowing about avoiding Verlander, too.

 

 

Garver has an OPS+ 80 points higher than Realmuto, and an OPS .300 points higher. The Twins would be worse off, I feel pretty confident saying that. 

 

Edited by alarp33, 23 July 2019 - 02:40 PM.

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#107 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:41 PM

 

 

So now the team is in a better spot had they traded for a Catcher who isn't playing as well as the one they currently have and not signed Cruz? 

 

Sorry I brought up the Realmuto name, I thought by now people would be ok admitting its a good thing the Twins avoided that

Maybe, maybe not, so far it has worked out pretty well that they didn't trade for him.

Yes Garver when he has played has been better than JT, but JT has played in 94 really well and Mitch only 52 great. which has forced Castro and the Turtle into all the other games.

but we are going to have to agree to disagree which isn't a bad thing.


#108 drivlikejehu

drivlikejehu

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,187 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:43 PM

 

None of that has played out yet, and it's tough to argue the Twins would be worse off with Realmuto.

 

There were people crowing about avoiding Verlander, too.

 

Can you point me to your post where you predicted, at the time Realmuto was traded, that Garver would have better offensive stats in late July, 2019? Otherwise, crowing about it now is sort of...hindsight-ish, no?

 

Or if we're going to do this, what was your opinion of the Pressly trade, at the time?

 

lol, you mean like all the proposed trades where you predicted the stats of the players involved?

 

if you advocate for every single possible trade, well sure, occasionally you'll be "right," just like a broken clock.

If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin'.


#109 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:45 PM

 

 

Garver has an OPS+ 80 points higher than Realmuto, and an OPS .300 points higher. The Twins would be worse off, I feel pretty confident saying that. 

83 starts at catcher compared to 46 doesn't count for anything?


#110 SwainZag

SwainZag

    Member

  • Moderator
  • 2,632 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:47 PM

 

None of that has played out yet, and it's tough to argue the Twins would be worse off with Realmuto.

 

There were people crowing about avoiding Verlander, too.

 

Can you point me to your post where you predicted, at the time Realmuto was traded, that Garver would have better offensive stats in late July, 2019? Otherwise, crowing about it now is sort of...hindsight-ish, no?

 

Or if we're going to do this, what was your opinion of the Pressly trade, at the time?

 

You keep bringing up Verlander. We get it. He's doing great.Since joining Houston he found something, improved his velocity and became a better pitcher at ages 34-36 than he had been in years.He's the exception, not the rule.  

 

I'm sure you could find a post from me stating that having an above average hitting catcher like Realmuto is a luxury and someone you don't trade a bunch of assets for unless you are set over the rest of the diamond.I was happy they didn't shell out a big offer then and even more happy today after seeing Garver morph into what he is today.


#111 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 25,732 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:47 PM

 

lol, you mean like all the proposed trades where you predicted the stats of the players involved?

 

if you advocate for every single possible trade, well sure, occasionally you'll be "right," just like a broken clock.

For the record, I don't currently like Boyd or Stroman.

 

 

  • ashbury, nicksaviking and Rigby like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#112 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,295 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:47 PM

 

83 starts at catcher compared to 46 doesn't count for anything?

 

Considering Castro has also had a better offensive season than Realmuto, no it really doesn't. When the Twins give Garver a break to keep him fresh they are getting more offense than Realmuto is providing the Phillies

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#113 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 25,732 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:48 PM

 

 

 

if you advocate for every single possible trade, well sure, occasionally you'll be "right," just like a broken clock.

If you advocate for avoiding every single possible trade, well sure, occasionaly you'll be "right," just like a broken clock.

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#114 SwainZag

SwainZag

    Member

  • Moderator
  • 2,632 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:48 PM

 

83 starts at catcher compared to 46 doesn't count for anything?

 

I think the difference is the giant package it would have taken to bring JT in here.It's Garver's numbers he has put up PLUS you still have the package of players.


#115 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    A Little Teapot

  • Owner
  • 23,266 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:52 PM

Maybe, maybe not, so far it has worked out pretty well that they didn't trade for him.
Yes Garver when he has played has been better than JT, but JT has played in 94 really well and Mitch only 52 great. which has forced Castro and the Turtle into all the other games.
but we are going to have to agree to disagree which isn't a bad thing.

Castro is also outplaying Realmuto by a considerable margin.
  • alarp33 and nicksaviking like this

#116 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Getting Ready to Show Up to ST in the Best Shape of My Life!

  • Member
  • 13,330 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:55 PM

None of that has played out yet, and it's tough to argue the Twins would be worse off with Realmuto.

There were people crowing about avoiding Verlander, too.

Can you point me to your post where you predicted, at the time Realmuto was traded, that Garver would have better offensive stats in late July, 2019? Otherwise, crowing about it now is sort of...hindsight-ish, no?

Or if we're going to do this, what was your opinion of the Pressly trade, at the time?


Since apparently I have nothing better to do at the airport I found the Realmuto article over the off-season.

http://twinsdaily.co...s-trade-target/

Sure, there were people arguing against the trade. How quickly we forget Garver was dealing with concussion issues and it wasn't a sure thing he would stick behind the plate. And no one predicted he would break out offensively like he has.
  • ashbury likes this

#117 drivlikejehu

drivlikejehu

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,187 posts

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:56 PM

 

If you advocate for avoiding every single possible trade, well sure, occasionaly you'll be "right," just like a broken clock.

 

Except no one here does that. It's a split between people who favor making sensible trades vs. those who think you can trade away your minor league system with no repercussions. 

 

Actual MLB teams behave cautiously when trading away prospects. Mega deals are rare. The simple reality is that prospects have significant value . . . whether or not you want to accept it, the numbers prove it out and all 30 MLB clubs agree.

  • alarp33 and SwainZag like this

If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin'.


#118 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Getting Ready to Show Up to ST in the Best Shape of My Life!

  • Member
  • 13,330 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:59 PM

Except no one here does that. It's a split between people who favor making sensible trades vs. those who think you can trade away your minor league system with no repercussions.

Actual MLB teams behave cautiously when trading away prospects. Mega deals are rare. The simple reality is that prospects have significant value . . . whether or not you want to accept it, the numbers prove it out and all 30 MLB clubs agree.


Smart teams took advantage of the market inefficiency (over valuing prospects) and built perennial playoff contending teams.
  • USAFChief likes this

#119 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 25,732 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 23 July 2019 - 03:12 PM

 

Except no one here does that. It's a split between people who favor making sensible trades vs. those who think you can trade away your minor league system with no repercussions. 

 

Actual MLB teams behave cautiously when trading away prospects. Mega deals are rare. The simple reality is that prospects have significant value . . . whether or not you want to accept it, the numbers prove it out and all 30 MLB clubs agree.

Heh.

 

Do you think that's a fair and accurate depiction of people's positions?

  • Tomj14 likes this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#120 h2oface

h2oface

    Lifelong since '61

  • Member
  • 4,800 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 23 July 2019 - 03:29 PM

 

Trade for Escobar or Pressly type of players please. Pressly is an all star this year. Escobar has .292 avg .900 OPS, he has hit 22 homers and driven in 79 runs so far. Talk about production and clutchness.

 

The Twins sure would be a better team if they just resigned both of these guys instead of trading for mediocre (yup, mediocre) prospects that aren't even close to helping. We had the help right here, and Pressly even had another year, didn't he? Prospects, schmaspects. I want MLB players. Last years bonehead trades of real MLB players should be screaming at the FO. Now we are just looking for suckers like our FO was to get the same type of player we already had. 

  • jz7233 likes this