93 replies to this topic

[AZTwin]

Maybe it's just me, but I have a higher value placed on Duran, a 21 year recently promoted to AA, over a 24 year old who's struggling in AAA and an 18 year old rookie ball pitcher. It didn't require Balazovic or Graterol to easily beat this deal.

I first mentioned Duran and Thorpe. If they wanted someone further away from 40 man consideration substitute Thorpe for Enlow, Leach, Berroa, Sands, etc.

Yeah even if you said Duran or Thorpe weren’t clearly better offer, you could easily throw in a guy like Jax, Luke Raley, Jaylin Davis or even Blankenhorn and it would easily beat it without including the top guys. Hell I think Duran by himself is better than the other 2 prospects

[Mr. Brooks]

Maybe it's just me, but I have a higher value placed on Duran, a 21 year recently promoted to AA, over a 24 year old who's struggling in AAA and an 18 year old rookie ball pitcher. It didn't require Balazovic or Graterol to easily beat this deal.

I first mentioned Duran and Thorpe. If they wanted someone further away from 40 man consideration substitute Thorpe for Enlow, Leach, Berroa, Sands, etc.

People who actually get paid to evaluate these prospects grade Duran as equal or lesser than the AAA pitcher that the Mets sent.
So, no that doesn't "easily" beat it. It may very well have, we don't know how the Jays have these guys graded.

The only pitching prospect we have who objectively, definitively grades out better, according to professional publications, not a poster's amateur opinion, is Graterol.

[dougd]

Duran got an exciting review today by BPro's Prospect staff. The first sentence: "You won’t find many pitchers jump in prospect rankings as much as 6-foot-5 right hander Jhoan Duran will this offseason."

 

The last sentence: The athletic body, the mound presence, how he attacks the zone, and the nasty repertoire all combined looks like a No. 2 starter, or better. – Keanan Lamb

[AZTwin]

People who actually get paid to evaluate these prospects grade Duran as equal or lesser than the AAA pitcher that the Mets sent.
So, no that doesn't "easily" beat it. It may very well have, we don't know how the Jays have these guys graded.

The only pitching prospect we have who objectively, definitively grades out better, according to professional publications, not a poster's amateur opinion, is Graterol.

GMs aren’t stupid. They can easily see a difference between a soon to be 25 year old soft-tossing pitcher trending in the wrong direction and a rising 21 year old pitcher with an electric fastball. I really doubt most GMs would rate the Mets player above Duran

[yarnivek1972]

GMs aren’t stupid. They can easily see a difference between a soon to be 25 year old soft-tossing pitcher trending in the wrong direction and a rising 21 year old pitcher with an electric fastball. I really doubt most GMs would rate the Mets player above Duran

Well, most GMs rely pretty heavily on professional scouts. Like, just as an example, the professional scouts that do these rankings.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 29 July 2019 - 05:25 PM.

[Mr. Brooks]

GMs aren’t stupid. They can easily see a difference between a soon to be 25 year old soft-tossing pitcher trending in the wrong direction and a rising 21 year old pitcher with an electric fastball. I really doubt most GMs would rate the Mets player above Duran

Ah, so it's just all the professional scouts at MLB Pipeline and Fangraphs that are stupid.

Good thing we have posters in here that have scouted these guys much more extensively.

Also, when did mid 90's plus fastballs, to go with a plus curve and plus change become "soft tossers"?

[AZTwin]

Ah, so it's just all the professional scouts at MLB Pipeline and Fangraphs that are stupid.

Good thing we have posters in here that have scouted these guys much more extensively.

Also, when did mid 90's plus fastballs, to go with a plus curve and plus change become "soft tossers"?

If you really are reading into a mid season ranking you are a fool. Look again in the off-season. This isn’t THAT hard. You remind me of the people praising De Leon purely because of his ranking and not looking at the facts. I guarantee that less than 10% of professional scouts would rate Duran below either of those two as of this point in time. Btw that guy isn’t mid 90s, he sits around 92-94

Edited by AZTwin, 29 July 2019 - 05:47 PM.

[USAFChief]

Ah, so it's just all the professional scouts at MLB Pipeline and Fangraphs that are stupid.

Good thing we have posters in here that have scouted these guys much more extensively.

Also, when did mid 90's plus fastballs, to go with a plus curve and plus change become "soft tossers"?

which professional scouts do the Fangraphs ratings, again?

[spycake]

Maybe it's just me, but I have a higher value placed on Duran, a 21 year recently promoted to AA, over a 24 year old who's struggling in AAA and an 18 year old rookie ball pitcher.

The 18 year old has been in A ball all season, not rookie leagues. Maybe he's the next Deolis Guerra.

[Mr. Brooks]

which professional scouts do the Fangraphs ratings, again?

If they do it as their primary source of income, then they are professionals.

Either way, they are much more plugged in than posters here who are literally just scouting stat lines.

Kay has really good stuff. He's a legit good prospect.
But hey, for some posters it fits their narrative to pretend like he's not a good prospect.

[AZTwin]

If they do it as their primary source of income, then they are professionals.

Either way, they are much more plugged in than posters here who are literally just scouting stat lines.

Kay has really good stuff. He's a legit good prospect.
But hey, for some posters it fits their narrative to pretend like he's not a good prospect.

Look again in the off-season. Something will suddenly be different with “only 1 more month of data”. Of course you will claim something actually changed in that time 😂

[Mr. Brooks]

Look again in the off-season. Something will suddenly be different with “only 1 more month of data”. Of course you will claim something actually changed in that time 😂

Not trying to be dense, I'm sorry, but I honestly don't understand what any of this post is trying to say.

[Mr. Brooks]

The Jays didn't have to make this trade. Stroman isn't a FA.
Yet they liked the package enough to make the trade.

So I guess we can add their GM and scouts to the list of idiots who aren't as informed as the posters here.

[ashbury]

GMs aren’t stupid. They can easily see a difference between...

Moderator's note: Well, this escalated quickly. So I am asking all involved, please stop the bickering, and in particular please leave out the characterizations of GMs, or anyone, as "stupid", "fools", "idiots", et cetera. Using the qualifier "not" doesn't make matters better, since it leaves an obvious implication regarding those with a different opinion. It adds nothing to the discussion, invites disrespect in return, and is well past the line laid out by the Comment Policy.