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Article: Week in Review: Losing Ground

miguel sano max kepler byron buxton jaylin davis
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#21 Aerodeliria

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:24 AM

 

Well, that's what we're talking about here. Having bodies in the bullpen doesn't mean much if you have no desire to use them. They held off on putting Stewart in a game until they essentially had no other choice, and that meant pushing both May and Littell into questionable usage.

I've been harping on this as well. I was afraid we might see a Rogers mini-meltdown and we did--in gut-punching fashion. Now we add May and Littel to the list.


#22 Platoon

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 04:35 AM

Is it possible that both our offense and pen have spoiled us? Both basically over performing in relation to their core talent level? There seems no doubt the pen did. They were/are based on medium level MLB talent it seems and have over performed for a couple of months. And like the moon men 50 yrs. ago, now have returned to earth. The offense is somewhat similar. It's talent level does seem higher relative to the pen, but it also exceeded its boundaries by a considerable margin. Raise your hand if you even contemplated this would be two months of the best offense in MLB. The other thing about the offense is it was destined to be all or nothing. Many lamented the lack of on base abilities, fearing what has transpired. Numerous solos HR's. Basically what many suspected has occurred. A pitcher will help, but anyone thinking one RP will make this a dominating team the likes of April and May are fooling themselves. Going back to the weak Central will help, but whipping KC and Detroit isn't dominating. Plus, the White Sox may be past a pushover already?
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#23 USAFChief

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 06:42 AM

 

 

That's just such a weird, myopic way of looking at things. I would say Saturday's game was decided by the offense, which scored four runs and went 0-for-5 with RISP.  

Saturday's game was decided by the offense? The bullpen was handed a 2 run lead. And then a 1 run lead. Regardless of whether that 2 run lead is 2-0, or 14-12, yes, I think it's fair to blame the bullpen.  

 

For the week, the pen allowed 19 runs, had 5 blown saves, and went 1-3, with the only win due to the offense scoring twice in the bottom of the ninth for a walkoff.

 

If anyone's being myopic here, I don't think it's me.

 

 

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#24 JW24

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:16 AM

 

Saturday's game was decided by the offense? The bullpen was handed a 2 run lead. And then a 1 run lead. Regardless of whether that 2 run lead is 2-0, or 14-12, yes, I think it's fair to blame the bullpen.  

 

For the week, the pen allowed 19 runs, had 5 blown saves, and went 1-3, with the only win due to the offense scoring twice in the bottom of the ninth for a walkoff.

 

If anyone's being myopic here, I don't think it's me.

 

None of the games this weekend were decided by a single component. The offense went 6-21 with RISP in the Twins two wins, and 0-9 in their two losses against Oakland. I think it is very fair to pin some of the blame on the offense for not coming through with big hits in big situations.

 

To me, the most glaring issue this past week was how sloppy the defense played. I think the Twins committed 3 errors in the series against Oakland, and had somewhere around 5 WP/PBs. All of that leads to more, unnecessary, pitches being thrown, which has a trickle down effect on the bullpen.

 

The Twins played bad baseball all week. 2-4 is probably as good a week as could be hoped for. Pitching, hitting, defense and base running all can accept responsibility.

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#25 Tomj14

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:42 AM

Everybody seen this bullpen had been pitching over its head all year (or not very good in some cases) and that is why they should have went out and tried to get help in June. In June it could have been older mid tier guys looking to catch fire, and if they weren't good it wouldn't have cost much and they could have gotten ridden of them.

But know it is damn near August and they don't have the luxury they must go out and get high priced back end guys.

They are 3 games up on the Division but only 4 or 5 from being out of the playoffs. Good Luck getting fans next year if they piss away this opportunity, because they are selling everybody on 2021.


#26 dbminn

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:44 AM

Since June 1, the Twins are 21-20 and the Indians are 28-12. The Twins haven't totally tanked - Cleveland has been on a tear. They've also had an easy schedule. Cleveland has played 13 games with teams above .500, but 9 each against Detroit and KC (add in 4 each with Baltimore and the Reds). The Twins have played 21 games played against teams above .500. This ratio will flip in August.

 

Another reason for the mediocre record is lost time. Players on the IL since June 1:

 

Cruz (3 days)

Pineda (7)

Cron (10)

Gonzalez (10)

Adrianza (11)

Odorizzi (10)

Rosario (19)

Buxton (twice for a total of 22 days)

 

Rosario and Buxton have hurt the most. The Twins are a much better team when their OF is intact. I'm not all that worried if the OF is healthy and the FO is willing and able to bolster the BP.

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#27 Tomj14

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:45 AM

 

 They held off on putting Stewart in a game until they essentially had no other choice, and that meant pushing both May and Littell into questionable usage.

and that is completely on the Front Office, not the hitters, not the starters, and not other relief pitchers (they are who they are and only one of them is a big time back end relief pitcher).

THE FRONT OFFICE!!

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#28 KFEY93

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:59 AM

 

The lineup coughed up endless scoring opportunities. Their bullpen shouldn't be in position to blow so many leads. It's unfortunate the unit is going through a collective slump while constantly being placed in so many precarious spots, but all of the guys mentioned in the article have generally been throwing very well lately.

 

These columns have detailed the strong work from the bullpen in each of the past two weeks. The Twins weren't performing very well in spite of it. Classic case of a unit getting no credit when things are good and all the blame when things are bad.

 

The Twins' bullpen ranks 8th in ERA, 6th in xFIP, and 6th in WAR over the past month, compared to the numbers listed above for the offense. The pitching staff held Oakland to 4.75 R/G in this series which is below their average, and held the Mets to 4 runs in a loss on Tuesday. You wanna win these games, your bats need to step up. Period.

Preach it


#29 SwainZag

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:28 AM

 

Dear Twins Front Office,

 

Some of these TD posters are crazy!!!

 

Your bullpen is GREAT!If anything, it is your lineup's fault.

 

You keep doing you....Don't change a thing....We are ALL in agreement (and how often does THAT happen) so how could we be wrong?!

 

Love,

 

The Yankees, Astros, Red Sox and Indians Front Offices

 

Jesus, no one is saying the bullpen is great, some of us are just saying the lineup should take a portion of the blame.They left ALOT of missed opportunities this week.How many baserunning errors did they make this week?How many times did they have multiple guys in scoring positions with less than 2 outs and fail to score? It happened over and over again.3 and 4 runs often times are not enough runs to win the game, even if you have a 1 run lead going into the 7th inning.If they were getting mowed down in order it wouldn't be as frustrating, but constantly having opportunities to add to leads and failing to convert things at least like a sac fly is maddening.

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#30 mikelink45

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:18 AM

I am excited about Stashak our new rookie reliever.He could be the answer.I hope he has not been overused in the minors.But at least the team looked past Cody Allen and took the truly hot arm.Now if only it can translate to MLB.He could be better than any of the trade options. 

 

He has pitched 52 innings in 31 appearances and his stats look great.

http://www.milb.com/...tching/2019/ALL

 

Yesterday's game was an amazing call to the minor league pen!

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#31 JW24

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:28 AM

 

Everybody seen this bullpen had been pitching over its head all year (or not very good in some cases) and that is why they should have went out and tried to get help in June. In June it could have been older mid tier guys looking to catch fire, and if they weren't good it wouldn't have cost much and they could have gotten ridden of them.

But know it is damn near August and they don't have the luxury they must go out and get high priced back end guys.

They are 3 games up on the Division but only 4 or 5 from being out of the playoffs. Good Luck getting fans next year if they piss away this opportunity, because they are selling everybody on 2021.

 

I don't know who you would have liked to see the Twins add in June that would add more stability to this roster at a reasonable price. The price of decent relievers in June is higher than at the deadline because the market is less established. Prying a good reliever away from a team that isn't more clearly defined as a seller in June will cost more than it does closer to the deadline.

 

I am sure the front office has been looking to make bullpen improvements from Opening Day, but they are smart to not pay a premium for relief pitching as relievers tend to have more significant fluctuations of talent than other positions.


#32 Tomj14

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:38 AM

 

I don't know who you would have liked to see the Twins add in June that would add more stability to this roster at a reasonable price. The price of decent relievers in June is higher than at the deadline because the market is less established. Prying a good reliever away from a team that isn't more clearly defined as a seller in June will cost more than it does closer to the deadline.

 

I am sure the front office has been looking to make bullpen improvements from Opening Day, but they are smart to not pay a premium for relief pitching as relievers tend to have more significant fluctuations of talent than other positions.

Any one of the pitchers that have been talked about on this site for over a month ( a few are below but many, many more have been talked about.) and IMO the Twins should have overpaid if that was required. (yes, I understand some were very far fetched at the time and now)

Will Smith, LHP, Giants
Liam Hendriks, RHP, Athletics
Ty Buttrey, RHP, Angels
Ken Giles, RHP, Blue Jays
Sam Dyson, RHP, Giants
Brad Hand, LHP, Indians
Oliver Perez, LHP Cleveland
Robert Stephenson, RHP, Reds
John Gant, RHP, Cardinals
Alex Colome, RHP, White Sox
Seth Lugo, RHP, Mets
Greg Holland, RHP, Diamondbacks
Sean Doolittle, LHP, Nationals
Kirby Yates, RHP, Padres


#33 Tomj14

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:40 AM

 

 

Prying a good reliever away from a team that isn't more clearly defined as a seller in June will cost more than it does closer to the deadline.

 

 

Agreed and you get that pitcher for an extra month, and a lead might drop from a dozen to three, it might only have dropped to 5,6,7 and everybody would be feeling better know about a 6 game lead, then a 4 game lead over the final playoff spot.


#34 SwainZag

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:52 AM

 

Agreed and you get that pitcher for an extra month, and a lead might drop from a dozen to three, it might only have dropped to 5,6,7 and everybody would be feeling better know about a 6 game lead, then a 4 game lead over the final playoff spot.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that since none of the guys you mentioned have changed teams that's it not as easy as overpaying to make a trade like that in June, unless it's an insane overpay.With even that being said, even if most of those guys are upgrades, there is no saying they would have been perfect in the pen.No reliever on that list is worth 4!? wins in a calendar month.

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#35 Tomj14

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:40 PM

 

I think it's pretty obvious that since none of the guys you mentioned have changed teams that's it not as easy as overpaying to make a trade like that in June, unless it's an insane overpay.With even that being said, even if most of those guys are upgrades, there is no saying they would have been perfect in the pen.No reliever on that list is worth 4!? wins in a calendar month.

The cost of winning sometimes isn't cheap, losing usually is, and being 20+ games over .500 in June doesn't happen very often (in MN).

Agreed one reliever isn't worth 4 wins ( I said 3) but setting up the bullpen to better fit your guys might be worth 3.

I can't imagine the Giants turning down an offer like Graterol, Duran, Javier.

 


#36 In My La-Z-boy

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:53 PM

 

I am excited about Stashak our new rookie reliever.He could be the answer.I hope he has not been overused in the minors.But at least the team looked past Cody Allen and took the truly hot arm.Now if only it can translate to MLB.He could be better than any of the trade options. 

 

He has pitched 52 innings in 31 appearances and his stats look great.

http://www.milb.com/...tching/2019/ALL

 

Yesterday's game was an amazing call to the minor league pen!

THIS! Maybe, maybe not but - this is not the way Terry Ryan would have done it - and I like it. Morin and Magill were cut loose now in anticipation of what is coming - and in knowing we must do better. Giving some AAA guys a shot before 7/31 is a worthy endeavor. Passing over Allen - that feels different and I like it. I will wait until August 1 to complain - and maybe I won't need to. 


#37 h2oface

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:54 PM

With so many teams not sure whether to sell as they are just a few games out of the last wildcard (national league), it is like the slow play of free agency all over again.

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#38 jorgenswest

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 07:12 PM

Relief pitching is so difficult to assess.

I thought they should have signed Kimbrel because he was available and ready a month before the deadline. It wouldn’t have helped thus far. He has struggled and can’t find his command. It could be a long three years for the Cubs.

#39 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 07:41 PM

Relief pitching is so difficult to assess.

I thought they should have signed Kimbrel because he was available and ready a month before the deadline. It wouldn’t have helped thus far. He has struggled and can’t find his command. It could be a long three years for the Cubs.


He really just had 2 bad appearances to start.
Since those first 2 appearances:

6 IP
9 K
4 BB
1 H
0 R
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#40 jorgenswest

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:45 PM

The 4 walks in 6 innings still make me wonder about command but I was looking at pitch level data for the comment. First pitch strike and zone % well below career norms.

I would be concerned if I were a Cubs fan.



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