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Article: Twins Game Recap (7/19): Twins Have No Answer To A’s pitching

jake odorizzi ryne harper marwin gonzalez luis arraez nelson cruz
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#21 Tom Froemming

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:28 AM

 

Indeed. Jake toed the line just short of insubordination, which I think is just fine in any athlete who lives to compete. Leave me in, Coach, I'm ready to play! :)

Yep, I'm having a hard time trying to decide what I think the right move was. Can see it either way. Made some sense for Rocco not to risk it, and it was starting to appear Odo's command was starting to go. On the other hand, it's not like Odorizzi was really getting crushed. I can see why Rocco is comfortable with the decision and, given the end result, why Jake is frustrated about it.

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#22 SQUIRREL

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:33 AM


It really sucks to be a .500 team again.


We always were a .500 team playing well above projections. And it was fun. Maybe they’ll find that again, maybe we’ll get some help, but I think most thought we were a .500 before the season started.
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#23 jorgenswest

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:38 AM

Happy for Hendriks.

He has been DFA’d several times but it is still very frustrating how the Twins developed him.

He came up too early 22 and wasn’t ready. In his two main seasons with the Twins he started 24 games. Who was his main catcher? Ryan Doumit caught 11 of those starts. Josmil Pinto and Chris Herman caught 3 each. I am sure Gardenhire was thinking something like... “Hendriks has good control we can afford to start Doumit here.” He would then complain about him nibbling. The reality is a guy like Hendriks that can paint the black needs a catcher that can frame that pitch on the black. Instead with Doumit his pitches needed to catch more of the strike zone inside the black to be called a strike and we saw the results.

Last night Hendriks was nibbling in the high 90s painting the black for two innings, Herrman had someone teach him how to receive a ball and thankfully that era of Twin baseball is in the rear view mirror.

I am hopeful that the Twins will find some value in a talent like Littell. That would not have happened in 2012.
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#24 rkevin

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:40 AM

 

 


Twins' OPS with runners in scoring position:

April/May — .888 (#2 in MLB)
June/July — .733 (#24 in MLB)

 

Twins' OPS in high-leverage spots:
April/May — .897 (#3 in MLB)
June/July — .620 (#28 in MLB)

 

Those two are very telling about what has been going on. Pitching isn't the team's greatest strength. Those offensive numbers must get better to win the division.

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#25 USAFChief

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:59 AM

Is anybody concerned that the front office will no longer make a big move at the deadline?

Falvine talked all offseason about waiting to make a move and spend money until they had a better understanding of what they had, personnel wise, etc. Wanting the young guys to all be on the same timeline.

I think it's become pretty clear that the team that came flying out of the gates the first two months of the season is simply not what this team is. It was a fun story, but the bats especially have really come back to the pack. The team we've seen the last 6+ weeks is more than likely the truer representation of this group than the team that was setting records, etc.

The FO has to know this. Is anyone else getting worried that instead of making a splash, they make some marginal move and more or less stand pat and keep prospects to continue "building" the team?

Viewing the first 2 months as more of a "pop" up scenario than a real chance to push all our chips in on a championship caliber team?

I'm literally just spitballing and I have no way of knowing one way or another.


Thats... if that happens, its cowardly in the extreme.
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#26 ashbury

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:03 AM

 

 

Twins' OPS with runners in scoring position:

April/May — .888 (#2 in MLB)
June/July — .733 (#24 in MLB)

 

Twins' OPS in high-leverage spots:
April/May — .897 (#3 in MLB)
June/July — .620 (#28 in MLB)

 

Those two are very telling about what has been going on. Pitching isn't the team's greatest strength. Those offensive numbers must get better to win the division.

 

You already did the leg work here, so let me ask: What are the analogous numbers for low-leverage and other situations?

 

Are they now just not hitting well, period?

I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.


#27 ashbury

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:05 AM

Thats... if that happens, its cowardly in the extreme.

Concur. When the window is open, as I believe it is, the road is not going to be smooth and even. There will be lumps and bumps, and those are not evidence by themselves of no window.*

 

That said, I don't view this as probably 1987 again, quite yet. More like 1984 - we may look back someday and say that this team wasn't ready yet, but later on was.

 

But, that's not to claim I have a crystal ball. No two rebuilds are alike. You compete, when you might have the horses. We've got equestrians, of some species TBD. Let's go, FalVine, this is the core that's going to win or lose, show us what you've got, while the players do likewise.

 

 

* Heck of a mixed metaphor, eh?

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#28 rkevin

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:14 AM

 

To further illustrate the slide, Gleeman just tweeted these numbers:

 

Twins' overall OPS:
April/May — .849 (#1 in MLB)
June/July — .802 (#7 in MLB)

 

Twins' OPS with runners in scoring position:
April/May — .888 (#2 in MLB)
June/July — .733 (#24 in MLB)

 

Twins' OPS in high-leverage spots:
April/May — .897 (#3 in MLB)
June/July — .620 (#28 in MLB)

 

Eh, my newbieness showed on this one. These are from HawksNests post and I totally mucked that up. My badliness. So ... let's see if Hawk sees this and can elaborate. :)

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#29 adorduan

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:17 AM

 

Thats... if that happens, its cowardly in the extreme.

Thanks USAChief. You said it much more nicely than I would.

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#30 ashbury

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:20 AM

Thanks USAChief. You said it much more nicely than I would.

 

 

you-can-do-it-17620277.png

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#31 HawksNest

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:22 AM

 

Thats... if that happens, its cowardly in the extreme.

 

Agreed!really, really hope that doesn't happen.

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#32 SwainZag

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 11:27 AM

A couple things to note:

 

1. Even after the treading water for the past 5 weeks, the Twins still hold the 3rd best record in the American League and 2nd best run differential.  

 

2.The Indians have basically been unbeatable.They are 22-7 in their last 29 games.They would have gained on anyone.Winning 75% of your games will do that.

 

 


#33 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:39 PM

I get that Cleveland’s playing really well right now, but there’s no excuse for the FO’s lack of urgency. If we don’t win the division, we all know who’s to blame.
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#34 jorgenswest

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:49 PM

I am not sure it is lack of urgency.

They need to find a seller and sellers have no reason for urgency. If you have one of the best relievers or starters in the market it is to your advantage to wait. There are more buyers than sellers.

The Twins could overpay significantly and win a deal today. I would think that is a move of desperation rather than urgency.

#35 ashbury

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:54 PM

 

I am not sure it is lack of urgency.

They need to find a seller and sellers have no reason for urgency. If you have one of the best relievers or starters in the market it is to your advantage to wait. There are more buyers than sellers.

The Twins could overpay significantly and win a deal today. I would think that is a move of desperation rather than urgency.

Or, they decide that that IS the price of urgency.

 

Sometimes, I comparison-shop the hell out of a product. Other times, I pay full retail at the most expensive shop that happens to be right around the corner, because I want a bandaid for the knee I just scraped when I unexpectedly tripped during my walk downtown, and the cost of waiting would affect me some other way than the direct cost.

 

I'm not saying to trade Royce Lewis for a bullpen rental arm. But there is such a thing as false economy.

 

I've been a stay the course, conserve the assets, guy for years. This is not the year.

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#36 h2oface

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:57 PM

 

I am not sure it is lack of urgency.

They need to find a seller and sellers have no reason for urgency. If you have one of the best relievers or starters in the market it is to your advantage to wait. There are more buyers than sellers.

The Twins could overpay significantly and win a deal today. I would think that is a move of desperation rather than urgency.

 

This should be no problem. It is an established fact that a top reliever can be had for a couple of mediocre prospects not even in AA ball yet........ proof is in the Pressly trade to Houston! (and our front office was the architect of the phenomenon):banghead:

 

They should even know the exact players it takes to get the "next Pressly".

 

 

Edited by h2oface, 20 July 2019 - 01:21 PM.

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#37 h2oface

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:59 PM

 

We always were a .500 team playing well above projections. And it was fun. Maybe they’ll find that again, maybe we’ll get some help, but I think most thought we were a .500 before the season started.

I believe I picked 93 wins - or maybe 92, I can't remember exactly. Happy to not be in the "gang" that knows so much. If they play just over .500 from here on out........... that is what the win total will be.

Edited by h2oface, 20 July 2019 - 01:22 PM.


#38 jorgenswest

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:43 PM

This should be no problem. It is an established fact that a top reliever can be had for a couple of mediocre prospects not even in AA ball yet........ proof is in the Pressly trade to Houston! (and our front office was the architect of the phenomenon) :banghead:

They should even know the exact players it takes to get the "next Pressly".

I think that will happen but it is going to take 10 days.

I do think lower tier players will get moved earlier. I do think teams might be trying to move some difficult to trade contracts. The Twins might make one of these deals and get a 7th inning guy we see as similar to May in the next few days. They need someone to match with Rogers though. They need a top starter. There aren’t very many of these guys and the sellers are wise to wait and play the buyers against each other.

The Twins would have to make them an offer that they are absolutely certain won’t be beat.

Edited by jorgenswest, 20 July 2019 - 01:44 PM.


#39 h2oface

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:09 PM

 

I think that will happen but it is going to take 10 days.

I do think lower tier players will get moved earlier. I do think teams might be trying to move some difficult to trade contracts. The Twins might make one of these deals and get a 7th inning guy we see as similar to May in the next few days. They need someone to match with Rogers though. They need a top starter. There aren’t very many of these guys and the sellers are wise to wait and play the buyers against each other.

The Twins would have to make them an offer that they are absolutely certain won’t be beat.

 

One would say the same thing about free agency just less than 2 years ago. I guess the urgency is different, but then....... look what our Twins did as a selling team last year. Not such great return. Not much competition, it seems, or at least I hope not to take what they did. Those who wait most often watch others making the trade. 

 

Why does someone "similar to May" not excite me?

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#40 adorduan

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 03:03 PM

 

One would say the same thing about free agency just less than 2 years ago. I guess the urgency is different, but then....... look what our Twins did as a selling team last year. Not such great return. Not much competition, it seems, or at least I hope not to take what they did. Those who wait most often watch others making the trade. 

 

Why does someone "similar to May" not excite me?

Exactly.We better be shooting for more than "similar to May".....




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