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Article: Twins Game Recap (7/14): Cleveland Prevails, Avoids Sweep

jose berrios marwin gonzalez
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#41 yarnivek1972

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:21 AM

For another team who hasn't seen him play every day like Twins fans have, he'd be a nice flyer.


Teams do still employ major league scouts. There are also these things called statistics available to every team. They show Schoop as the 14th best second baseman in MLB by fWAR (currently at 1.1), right ahead of ... wait for it ... Brian Dozier.

22-25 HR pace, currently at .256, should drive in 70. He'd be a decent major-league-ready addition to any non-playoff team.


And, since the start of June he has a robust .670 OPS. Trading for him gets you two months of that.

Contrary to the belief of some, other teams won’t trade for your garbage and give you back roses.
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#42 Vanimal46

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:32 AM

Teams do still employ major league scouts. There are also these things called statistics available to every team. They show Schoop as the 14th best second baseman in MLB by fWAR (currently at 1.1), right ahead of ... wait for it ... Brian Dozier.


And, since the start of June he has a robust .670 OPS. Trading for him gets you two months of that.

Contrary to the belief of some, other teams won’t trade for your garbage and give you back roses.


Falvey and Levine have a couple of weeks to make a decision with Schoop. Wouldn't be opposed to trading him for A ball players if they believe Arraez is going to project as the better player going forward. The risk is moving him to the bench for the playoffs just like Milwaukee did last year.
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#43 yarnivek1972

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:08 AM

Falvey and Levine have a couple of weeks to make a decision with Schoop. Wouldn't be opposed to trading him for A ball players if they believe Arraez is going to project as the better player going forward. The risk is moving him to the bench for the playoffs just like Milwaukee did last year.


They may not have a couple weeks. Assuming no one else gets hurt in the interim (by no means a certainty), the Twins will need to decide what to do with Schoop when Rosario and Cron are both activated, which is likely this week. Cave will go down for one. It’s possible a pitcher could go for the other, but not likely. I mean, the Twins just had a series where the pen pitched 11 innings. Morin and Magill pitched 0 of them. IMO, they should both be replaced by a rotating field of Smeltzer, Thorpe and maybe Poppen and Stewart to give them the length that neither Morin or Magill provide. Will that hurt their development? Probably. Guess what? This is what contending teams do.

But, back to Schoop. If the Twins want to keep playing Areaez, the only position player to shed that makes sense is Schoop. I’m not sure I’d be willing to do that. Arraez could regress. Indeed, he’s almost certain to to some degree. You don’t see a lot of guys come up from AA and hit .400 over 2/3 of a season. If he falters or if there is another infield injury, depth becomes an issue. I’d rather not see Adrianza and Gordon starting in September in games that mean anything. I suppose it is possible Schoop could clear outright waivers and be sent to Rochester. I don’t know if he would try to latch on somewhere at the MLB level. I’m not sure there is an opening. As poorly as Schoop has played the last 6 weeks, it is undeniable that the Twins wouldn’t be where they are now without the contributions he made in April and May.

It’s a difficult decision. One I am glad it is not my responsibility to make. Frankly, I could see it going either way and I think I can see the upside of either decision. But there are also risks with either decision, some more lasting than others.

#44 prouster

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:15 AM

There’s no good reason to sell parts from a pennant contending roster. Injuries and underperformance are unpredictable. They should be looking to add as much as possible.

#45 yarnivek1972

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:29 AM

Here’s a question for anyone who might know:

Is it possible that the Twins have put someone (Jonathon Schoop for example) on revocable waivers just to see if he clears without casual fans (or even ones that are pretty dialed in) finding out about it? Is that a thing this time of the year?

#46 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:30 AM

This season is going to come down to 3 more stretches;

 

From now through July 28, the Twins play 13 games against both NY squads, Oakland, and the White Sox; combined winning percentage of .538 (87 win pace).

 

From July 30 through August 18, the Twins play 19 games against Miami, KC, Atlanta, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Texas; combined winning percentage of .492 (80 win pace).

 

From August 19 through September 15, the Twins play 25 games against the White Sox, Detroit, Boston, Cleveland, and Washington; combined winning percentage of .469 (76 win pace).

 

During these same periods, here's how the Indian's schedule looks;

 

In period 1, 14 games against Detroit, KC, Toronto; combined winning percentage of .344 (56 win pace)

 

In period 2, 20 games against Houston, LA Angels, Texas, Minnesota, Boston, and the Yankees (of note--these 20 games are in 20 days); combined winning percentage of .587 (95 win pace)

 

In period 3, 25 games against Mets, KC, Detroit, Tampa, White Sox, Minnesota, and LA Angels; combined winning percentage .492 (80 win pace)

 

At that point, the Twins get their final 13 games of the season against the dregs of the central, combined winning percentage of .368 (60 win pace).If the Indians are more than 3-4 games out after the game on September 15, it will be almost impossible for them to catch us.Therefore, expect the following to happen; Indians close to 3 or 4 games before the end of the month.The Twins make it all up in the next 20 games to push the lead back to the 7-9 game range, where it stays for the next month.The Twins enter their last 4 series with the Central all but locked down, and clinch at home against KC on September 22.


#47 jz7233

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:30 PM

 

There’s no good reason to sell parts from a pennant contending roster. Injuries and underperformance are unpredictable. They should be looking to add as much as possible.

Addition by subtraction. Infield is too crowded at the moment.


#48 prouster

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:59 PM

Addition by subtraction. Infield is too crowded at the moment.


What’s your solution if Schoop is traded and Arraez gets hurt? Or if he turns into a pumpkin? Or if either of those things happens then Polanco gets hurt? Or if those things happen, then Adrianza goes two weeks without a hit?

My point is that there are too many things that can go wrong in a 162 game season for a winning team to trade pieces whenever someone slumps. This exact same discussion came up about Jason Castro in early May. Then Garver and Austudillo both got hurt. Had they traded Castro (some people, astonishingly, even wanted him to be straight up released), they would have had to move guys around on the 40 man and suit someone up who shouldn’t be on the major league roster.

Trading guys off a winning team is dumb, dumb, dumb.
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#49 jz7233

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:16 PM

 

What’s your solution if Schoop is traded and Arraez gets hurt? Or if he turns into a pumpkin? Or if either of those things happens then Polanco gets hurt? Or if those things happen, then Adrianza goes two weeks without a hit?

My point is that there are too many things that can go wrong in a 162 game season for a winning team to trade pieces whenever someone slumps. This exact same discussion came up about Jason Castro in early May. Then Garver and Austudillo both got hurt. Had they traded Castro (some people, astonishingly, even wanted him to be straight up released), they would have had to move guys around on the 40 man and suit someone up who shouldn’t be on the major league roster.

Trading guys off a winning team is dumb, dumb, dumb.

Trading someone who never delivers in crucial situations is a smart smart smart move for a contending team that wants to win as many games as possible in playoff. Gonzalez, Adrianza, Arraez and Polanco all can play 2B adequately. Gordon is very close to major league ready.

Edited by jz7233, 15 July 2019 - 02:19 PM.


#50 Aggies7

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:26 PM

 

A weird statement given how much better the bullpen has been than the rotation.

As of late, yeah. How many guys outside TR do you trust in a postseason series if we get 5 or less out of the starter? One maybe? Surely no more than two.


#51 spycake

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 03:36 PM

Here’s a question for anyone who might know:

Is it possible that the Twins have put someone (Jonathon Schoop for example) on revocable waivers just to see if he clears without casual fans (or even ones that are pretty dialed in) finding out about it? Is that a thing this time of the year?


There is no such as revocable waivers anymore. That was August trade waivers in past years, which have been eliminated.

The only waivers left are outright/release waivers, and those are always irrevocable.

#52 spycake

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 03:42 PM

For another team who hasn't seen him play every day like Twins fans have, he'd be a nice flyer. 22-25 HR pace, currently at .256, should drive in 70. He'd be a decent major-league-ready addition to any non-playoff team.


A flyer to do what? Schoop is a pending FA. I don't think he is a bad player, but he has virtually zero value to a non-playoff team right now. (Arguably negative value, if he takes opportunities away from other players.)

I guess if we need to shed a couple mil salary, we could package him with a prospect or two, like the Dodgers did with Forsythe last year.

#53 prouster

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 03:49 PM

Trading someone who never delivers in crucial situations is a smart smart smart move for a contending team that wants to win as many games as possible in playoff. Gonzalez, Adrianza, Arraez and Polanco all can play 2B adequately. Gordon is very close to major league ready.


I don’t think it’s a good plan to call up rookies and play guys out of position. You must not have watched the twins when they went two years without a center fielder.

There’s no upside to dumping Schoop in favor a guy in A ball, which is pretty much what they could expect to get. He’s not their best player by any stretch of the imagination, but they don’t need him to be. He’s actually been pretty solid with some really good stretches. I think his lousy weekend may be clouding your judgment.

This is my last post on the subject, because we just simply disagree.

#54 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 04:12 PM

 

As of late, yeah. How many guys outside TR do you trust in a postseason series if we get 5 or less out of the starter? One maybe? Surely no more than two.

I trust neither the rotation nor the bullpen in the postseason but the bullpen is a lot easier to fix. One great arm and it's suddenly a lot better. One great arm and one competent lefty and it's suddenly a very good bullpen.




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