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Rick Stelmaszek fired

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#61 Thrylos

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:02 PM

A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.


Agreed. The writing was on the wall when the Twins brought Glynn into the organization. I suspect that he will be the 3B coach, since in addition to manager, he was Rochester's 3B coach. With Bruno the hitting coach and Cuellar the BP coach it will be interesting to see where Molitor fits (probably bench) and who will be the 1B coach.

A couple of thoughts:

- The Twins are set up to #FireGardyNAndy in May of 2013 if needed (i.e. if the team sucks again) and have a full succession plan in the bigs in place
- That succession plan would be very interesting, i.e. who will have the upper hand, Molitor or Glynn.
- On times that a team is not promoting players on the 40 man roster in September to save $, giving MLB paychecks to Scotty and Vavry as "IF and OF instructors", gives the wrong message. Maybe they will be interviewing for one of the many openings out there this off-season.
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#62 jokin

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:09 PM



A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.


Agreed. The writing was on the wall when the Twins brought Glynn into the organization. I suspect that he will be the 3B coach, since in addition to manager, he was Rochester's 3B coach. With Bruno the hitting coach and Cuellar the BP coach it will be interesting to see where Molitor fits (probably bench) and who will be the 1B coach.

A couple of thoughts:

- The Twins are set up to #FireGardyNAndy in May of 2013 if needed (i.e. if the team sucks again) and have a full succession plan in the bigs in place
- That succession plan would be very interesting, i.e. who will have the upper hand, Molitor or Glynn.
- On times that a team is not promoting players on the 40 man roster in September to save $, giving MLB paychecks to Scotty and Vavry as "IF and OF instructors", gives the wrong message. Maybe they will be interviewing for one of the many openings out there this off-season.


Is Molitor's hiring a done deal?

#63 JB_Iowa

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.


You do realize the general manager was fired less than a year ago right?


I fully realize that Bill Smith was fired last fall. I also believe that the primary reason he was fired was because he and Jim Pohlad did not see eye-to-eye on payroll NOT because of the team's record. (Per the Star-Tribune: "There's no question I said [Smith's job was safe], and when I said it, I meant it," Pohlad said Monday. "But we did say at the time that we want to get better in 2012, and we'll see what the plan is. And like we've said, the plan that was proposed, we were on different pages.")

But what I also know is that Smith was an administrator-type who relied on the people around him in the decision-making process. And yet, we've seen no changes in the front office staff other than today's firing of McWane. I also know that Smith was re-hired to a different position within the organization.

I do see the firing of McWane as more substantial than that of the 3 coaches and maybe we'll see some additional changes in the front office before the fall is over. But for now, it seems to me that they continue to tinker on the edges rather than get to the heart of responsibility.

#64 spideyo

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:25 PM

Remember guys, this is only the first day after the season, and they haven't made any official announcements regarding who is taking over these new vacancies. It has been the assumption that the Rochestor guys will be moving up, but we might be wrong. I doubt anyone was expecting Stelmazek to be cut loose. Terry Ryan has been around a long time but that doesn't mean he can't surprise us.

#65 Thrylos

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

Remember guys, this is only the first day after the season, and they haven't made any official announcements regarding who is taking over these new vacancies. It has been the assumption that the Rochestor guys will be moving up, but we might be wrong. I doubt anyone was expecting Stelmazek to be cut loose. Terry Ryan has been around a long time but that doesn't mean he can't surprise us.


There will be announcements in the press conference tomorrow. The only question mark is 1B/bench
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#66 mike wants wins

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

Why can't they just let the guys go, rather than retain them? I mean, if you are going to make a change, make a change. Organizational change management is very clear on this, changes where you keep the old stuff/people around are less effective. This looks like

Ryan: "time to make changes"
Gardy: "no way"
Ryan: "yes, we are letting people go"
Gardy: "well, keep them around some"

This looks just half way to me.

And, all the minor league people running the system still have jobs, right? How many impact players have come up the last 5 years? Impact, not mediocre, impact?

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#67 Thrylos

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

Why can't they just let the guys go, rather than retain them? I mean, if you are going to make a change, make a change. Organizational change management is very clear on this, changes where you keep the old stuff/people around are less effective. This looks like

Ryan: "time to make changes"
Gardy: "no way"
Ryan: "yes, we are letting people go"
Gardy: "well, keep them around some"

This looks just half way to me.

And, all the minor league people running the system still have jobs, right? How many impact players have come up the last 5 years? Impact, not mediocre, impact?


agreed.

the other thing I hear in defense to Andy is that "he did not have the pitchers to work with". If that is true, then it is Ryan's fault. So one or the other has to go.
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#68 Pius Jefferson

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:35 PM

It's a secondary coaching position but any names being thrown out for the 1st base coach?

#69 Thrylos

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

It's a secondary coaching position but any names being thrown out for the 1st base coach?


Toby
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#70 beckmt

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:17 PM

I think Gardy and Andy will have to show improvement next year to be retained, and I also feel that the succession plan is in place if TR decides to make a change in midseason(though he may check first to see if TK would do a part of a year). This is a start as the Twins are not showing improvement in fundamentals. This probably is as galling to TR as anything and is the reason for the shakeup in Rochester this year.
Will see tomorrow what the total shakeup is, but this looks like it has been planned for a time

#71 Winston Smith

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:31 PM

Wonder where the brain trust for Twins Daily has been all day? Odd they would be silent on all this.

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#72 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:31 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.


A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.


---All good and fair points. But I guess I was hoping for something a little bolder after 2 putrid seasons. If it's already been decided that Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno and Molitor are the successors to Gardy, Andy, Vavra and Ulger then just make the damn move. Don't drag it out by repurposing Vavra and Ulger and making Gardy a lame duck.

#73 Willihammer

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

No way Gardy gets fired midseason even if they start poorly again. That's not this FO's MO. In fact, I suspect that shortly before the meeting w/ season ticket holders, Gardy was already informed of the decision, and told it was strictly an appeasement style PR move to transition to Glynn/Cuellar/Bruno for 2014. Besides, why would the FO put any kind of moratorium on the guy who's already the longest tenured active manager in baseball. From a professional perspective, Gardy would just as soon walk now and take one of the 4-5 open Manager jobs this winter. Also a moratorium, implied or explicit, would only introduce the potential for a split clubhouse a la 2012 Red Sux and unnecessary drama. Nobody wants that. Instead, being clear about the plan align's everyone's interest in making a strong showing in 2013.

If you think about it, this is about as smoothly as an organization can go about regime change. I o nly hope that Glynn will bring fresh, outsider thinking even if he is an internal guy.