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Article: MIN 5, KC 4: Bats Rally, Bullpen Protects 1-Run Lead

marwin gonzalez max kepler taylor rogers jake odorizzi joe mauer
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#21 ashbury

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:25 AM

 

I guess a few questions...

How many plays has Gonzalez missed this year that he should have made? I can recall a great catch he made against Chicago and his catch last night in the ninth kept an incredibly fast runner off the bases. Is that balanced with several balls he should have caught like the Maldonado ball? I don’t recall others and I don’t see any on inside edge fielding.

Didn’t Adrianza have a game earlier this week against the Mariners where he showed off some excellent base running skill? If I recall he was on second and took third on a ball in the dirt. His secondary lead allowed him that base. He then followed by scoring with the infield in due a nice secondary and great slide. Those don’t seem like the moves of a plodding base runner.

That's fair about the 9th inning catch. I was multi-tasking at the time and I didn't see it until now on a video site. I suspect most RFers make that play, as it didn't require many steps, but credit where credit is due.

https://cuts.diamond...20_59_4000K.mp4

 

Likewise with Adrianza taking a base the other day, I don't recall it. A good lead and smart baserunning wasn't really what I was getting at, though. It just takes him longer to get where he's going, once he's going, than I expect of a guy of his size and general athleticism. Shortstop is more about quick-twitch reaction than raw speed anyway, and I'm just saying that he'd easily lose a footrace to any of the four I named, and that might not be the case for the average utility infielder. I don't have any complaints about Ehire's work on the basepaths - he's just.... not.... you know, fast. If I'm third-base coach and faced with a close decision, I don't send Cron, I don't send Schoop, I don't send Adrianza. Nothing to do with yesterday's game, of course, just a side observation after Schoop was thrown out by a mile at second.

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#22 rdehring

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:25 AM

When Trevor May is pitching, I get real nervous waiting for that next walk.But I like what he can throw up there.When Parker is pitching, I just get real nervous.  

 

I hope that first bullpen move is soon, very soon.

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#23 Carole Keller

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:39 AM

Here that is for anybody who missed it:


Did he rip his pants on that? Or did that happen earlier in the game and I just didn’t notice? Or maybe it just looks like he did?

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#24 Aerodeliria

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:59 AM

Thanks for the video. Kepler I've heard of but whose Mathis?

#25 ChiefsKid

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:09 AM

That's fair about the 9th inning catch. I was multi-tasking at the time and I didn't see it until now on a video site. I suspect most RFers make that play, as it didn't require many steps, but credit where credit is due.
https://cuts.diamond...20_59_4000K.mp4
 
....I don't have any complaints about Ehire's work on the basepaths - he's just.... not.... you know, fast. If I'm third-base coach and faced with a close decision, I don't send Cron, I don't send Schoop, I don't send Adrianza. Nothing to do with yesterday's game, of course, just a side observation after Schoop was thrown out by a mile at second.


Didn't Adrianza literally three games ago score on a one hopper hit directly to the second baseman playing in?
He has perfectly adequate speed for a utility infielder. Comparing anyone to Buxton, Kepler and Rosario is silly, imo.
I've always been of the opinion to make guys throw you out. If its gonna be close, send em. If he makes a perfect throw and the catcher is able to make a perfect tag, I can live with it. What I can't live with is holding our utility infielder at third on a clean single and then having the next guy up strike out.
To me, it's pretty clear Baldelli favors aggressiveness. One result has been setting Major League offensive team records. Another byproduct is having a couple guys thrown out trying to take an extra base.
I'm perfectly fine with the tradeoff.
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#26 Aerodeliria

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:11 AM

Most Underrated Twin for me has to be Gonzalez. His super utility-ness has provided the much needed rest that all the other players are getting and on top of that it's not really a drop off when he comes in, he frequently plays the hero offensively and defensively. I think he's one of the major reasons we are a good this year as we are


Mr. Cool? Yeah, he's underrated for sure.

#27 stringer bell

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:39 AM

Gonzalez has played precious little right field until this year. I speculated that he would play left with Rosario and Kepler manning the other two spots when Buxton is on the pine.

Margo hasn’t looked particularly comfortable in right, but I think he’s better than “a butcher” out there. Adrianza isn’t slow, but he isn’t fast. Last year he got thrown out several times on the bases. I don’t recall any terrible throw outs this year and his base running sequence on Thursday was textbook.

A second baseman was playing right field and he had to run to his left and then make a throw to his right on Schoop’s hit. Merrifield did it perfectly, but it’s a chance to take with two outs.

#28 USAFChief

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:54 AM

A couple points: I like the gamble for 2 by Schoop with 2 outs. Getting into scoring position is worth it. The outfielder just made a good play.

The thing I like most about Gonzalez' catch in the ninth, was how shallow he was playing. It was Billy Hamilton...make him hit it over your head. If he's not playing really shallow, that's a hit, followed by a probable stolen base.

Twins teams of the past would have had their outfielders with their backs glued to the wall, in some silly "no doubles" prevent defense. They routinely played their OF too deep, and in the 9th would have played them even farther back, no matter who was at the plate.
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#29 DocBauer

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

<p>

Several takeaways for me, some already touched upon.

  • Marwin is a butcher in RF and isn't getting better. Either give him intensive drills, or play him elsewhere. Nelson Cruz used to play RF, and I bet he still could give you better innings out there than Marwin has shown us. Our backup right fielder is in Rochester. When Buxton sits, either use Rosario in center and put Marwin in left (where he's said to be good, I can't remember), or else give Ehire a try out there. Remember JD Martinez playing RF in the last World Series? Yeah. We're potentially facing that embarrassment when the stage gets bigger and we're not playing the Royals.
  • Cron, what the what? Shake it off and get 'em next game, I guess. I counted 3 plays that he would have made on a different day.
  • Ehire has a major league glove at all the infield positions, but he ain't perfect, as we saw again yesterday.
  • I trust four of our baserunners, Rosario and Kepler and Polanco and Buxton. If you're not in that list, don't go stretching a single into a double in a situation that would only work in a beer league. I'm looking at you, Jonathan Schoop; with two outs a double would be helpful, but it'll have to be the next guy, so be off at the crack of the bat and let him drive you around. It actually catches me by surprise that two capable middle-infielders on our roster, Schoop and Adrianza, are so plodding on the basepaths, but they are what they are. We're mostly a slow team.
  • You can make this many mistakes against the Royals and still win. We used to be the Royals. Heck, we're not that far removed - they're running Lucas Duda out there, and we almost did.

So which side of the bed do you normally climb out of Ash? :)
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#30 Carole Keller

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:23 AM

Didn't Adrianza literally three games ago score on a one hopper hit directly to the second baseman playing in?
He has perfectly adequate speed for a utility infielder. Comparing anyone to Buxton, Kepler and Rosario is silly, imo.
I've always been of the opinion to make guys throw you out. If its gonna be close, send em. If he makes a perfect throw and the catcher is able to make a perfect tag, I can live with it. What I can't live with is holding our utility infielder at third on a clean single and then having the next guy up strike out.
To me, it's pretty clear Baldelli favors aggressiveness. One result has been setting Major League offensive team records. Another byproduct is having a couple guys thrown out trying to take an extra base.
I'm perfectly fine with the tradeoff.


Yep, force the other team to make a perfect play. There might be specific teams and/or fielders or situations you don’t test, but in general, go for it.
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#31 Riverbrian

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:24 AM

I have no issues with Marwin defensively at any position.

I think as a whole, we've had a stretch of defensive mistakes lately that will ebb and flow as the season rolls along but in the end we will be just fine defensively.

I’m not sure there is anything that needs a remedy.

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#32 jkcarew

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:07 AM

A couple points: I like the gamble for 2 by Schoop with 2 outs. Getting into scoring position is worth it. The outfielder just made a good play.
The thing I like most about Gonzalez' catch in the ninth, was how shallow he was playing. It was Billy Hamilton...make him hit it over your head. If he's not playing really shallow, that's a hit, followed by a probable stolen base.
Twins teams of the past would have had their outfielders with their backs glued to the wall, in some silly "no doubles" prevent defense. They routinely played their OF too deep, and in the 9th would have played them even farther back, no matter who was at the plate.


I’ve always been in the ‘take the chance to get to second with two outs’ camp. And I still like that...but maybe not quite as much when the club is on pace to hit 300 home runs and the guy that follows you is on pace to hit 40. And that’s how it played out.

Great point on the positioning of Gonzalez for the Hamilton play. Without that he has no chance, and Hamilton is probably on second with a single and a stolen base.

#33 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:14 AM

It would be fun to know if Gonzalez used his cheat card to position himself on that Hamilton ball, or if someone on the bench whistled out to him, (or maybe he was just lucky). In any case, I loved seeing what looked like a sure leadoff hit turn into an out when they switched from the home plate camera to the outfield. It reminded me of ... wait for it ... when Alex Gordon started shifting on Mauer shallow down the left field line :)

(because Joe Mauer night, KC vs Twins, etc)
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#34 MNT1996

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:21 AM

 

A couple points: I like the gamble for 2 by Schoop with 2 outs. Getting into scoring position is worth it. The outfielder just made a good play.

The thing I like most about Gonzalez' catch in the ninth, was how shallow he was playing. It was Billy Hamilton...make him hit it over your head. If he's not playing really shallow, that's a hit, followed by a probable stolen base.

Twins teams of the past would have had their outfielders with their backs glued to the wall, in some silly "no doubles" prevent defense. They routinely played their OF too deep, and in the 9th would have played them even farther back, no matter who was at the plate.

 

Schoop was out by a mile trying to stretch that single. Terrible read and not a good call when down by two. Runners in scoring position is great, but making the final out of the inning on the base paths is not great. Twins have obviously shown the ability to drive balls into the gaps or over the fence so while that extra base would be nice it's not worth the risk especially for a slower guy like Schoop.

Edited by MNT1996, 16 June 2019 - 10:23 AM.


#35 james2334

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:54 AM

 

That's fair about the 9th inning catch. I was multi-tasking at the time and I didn't see it until now on a video site. I suspect most RFers make that play, as it didn't require many steps, but credit where credit is due.

https://cuts.diamond...20_59_4000K.mp4

 

Likewise with Adrianza taking a base the other day, I don't recall it. A good lead and smart baserunning wasn't really what I was getting at, though. It just takes him longer to get where he's going, once he's going, than I expect of a guy of his size and general athleticism. Shortstop is more about quick-twitch reaction than raw speed anyway, and I'm just saying that he'd easily lose a footrace to any of the four I named, and that might not be the case for the average utility infielder. I don't have any complaints about Ehire's work on the basepaths - he's just.... not.... you know, fast. If I'm third-base coach and faced with a close decision, I don't send Cron, I don't send Schoop, I don't send Adrianza. Nothing to do with yesterday's game, of course, just a side observation after Schoop was thrown out by a mile at second.

While you can complain about the speed of the Twins players, I think it is a result of putting more emphasis on other areas such as power. By contrast the Royals put a ton of emphasis on having players with speed and the ability to steal bases. While the Twins were signing Nelson Cruz, the Royals were signing Billy Hamilton. So far the Twins have scored 411 runs to the Royals 288. I''ll take power over speed every day of the week. 

Edited by james2334, 16 June 2019 - 10:57 AM.


#36 Tom Froemming

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 11:06 AM

 

We could add Odorizzi to the list of players no is really talking about, and Cron, and Garver, even Rosario and Buxton. I was reading suggested all stars by various sports gurus and the Twins players were conspicuously absent. Only one analyst had two Twins players on the list (Polanco and Rosario). Of all the others, only one Twin was even mentioned and that by only one guru (surprisingly that was Castro). In a sense, maybe that's the beauty of the Twins; there are different heroes depending on the game.

It's crazy. I started to outline an article on that topic of most underrated Twin, but I ended up with about 75% of the roster in consideration. A lot of these guys are among the best players in baseball this year, and most of them could probably stroll around MPLS and go unrecognized, let alone on the bigger, national scale. 

 

People are most definitely taking notice of the Twins' success, but to your point, there's no superstar carrying the team by himself. It's a team effort. One of the guys the team marketed the most (La Tortuga) is in Triple A right now.

 

 

 

 

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#37 Tom Froemming

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 11:15 AM

On Schoop being thrown out, it looked bad, but I thought that was more of a good play by Whit Merrifield than a foolish decision by Schoop. Here's a link to the video, I was impressed with how quickly Merrifield transferred the ball over and got rid of it.

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#38 ashbury

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 11:40 AM

While you can complain about the speed of the Twins players,

Didn't think I was doing that. Mainly making an observation about Schoop's one play. That was not a long throw from the outfield, and even if Merrifield was not a regular there the throw was more or less like from one infielder to another. I hated seeing the try as soon as Schoop made the turn, and he was out by way too large a margin. I like aggressive baserunning, but not suicidal.
 
I don't remember seeing Adrianza make a mistake (in my view) like that, my comment was just a general memory many weeks ago of the third-base coach waving him home in a situation I thought was a good choice, and he wound up being tagged out because he arrived at the plate a step or two slower than I would have guessed for him. We aren't really a team that is built on speed, and I'm fine with that; our offense is working great at the moment and so we shouldn't like to throw away outs.
 

I was impressed with how quickly Merrifield transferred the ball over and got rid of it.

He's a middle infielder. Transferring the ball is what he does for a living. :)

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#39 stringer bell

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 12:31 PM

 

Didn't think I was doing that. Mainly making an observation about Schoop's one play. That was not a long throw from the outfield, and even if Merrifield was not a regular there the throw was more or less like from one infielder to another. I hated seeing the try as soon as Schoop made the turn, and he was out by way too large a margin. I like aggressive baserunning, but not suicidal.
 
I don't remember seeing Adrianza make a mistake (in my view) like that, my comment was just a general memory many weeks ago of the third-base coach waving him home in a situation I thought was a good choice, and he wound up being tagged out because he arrived at the plate a step or two slower than I would have guessed for him. We aren't really a team that is built on speed, and I'm fine with that; our offense is working great at the moment and so we shouldn't like to throw away outs.
 

He's a middle infielder. Transferring the ball is what he does for a living. :)

The play for Merrifield was not easy, particularly for a non-outfielder (IMHO), To his credit, Merrifield made the play and it looked routine.

 

As far as speed, the Twins appear to have only Buxton with game-changing speed. I think that one reason why the Twins should hang on to Nick Gordon is that he could provide speed along with Buck. There isn't much speed besides those guys in the top tiers of the organization. Polanco, Kepler, and Rosario run well, but not to the point that they are disruptive.




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