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Rosenthal: Kimbrel to the Cubs

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#61 biggentleben

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 11:32 PM

All this discussion assumes Kimbrel is essentially Braves Kimbrel or 2017 Kimbrel. He's been injured since joining Boston and not fully healthy for a season and postseason both since he was a Brave. His last season in Atlanta was 2014.

 

In 2017, even though he had a brilliant regular season, Kimbrel was exhausted when he got to the postseason and made two appearances in the Red Sox loss to the Astros in the ALDS, allowing 5 base runners in 2 innings.

 

Even though the Red Sox won the World Series last year, they really won it in spite of Kimbrel. He allowed 7 runs over 10 2/3 innings in the postseason, walking 16% of the hitters he faced.

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#62 ashbury

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:24 AM

Baseball is a business unlike most other businesses. It's marketed as a sport. The sporting motive is sometimes at odds with the profit motive.

 

General Motors doesn't even begin to pretend that Chevrolet is competing with Buick competing with Cadillac competing with GMC. Deciding to shut down Saturn and Pontiac and Oldsmobile a few years ago wasn't in the same vein as the proposal to shut down the Twins.

 

If you are going to market as a sporting team, at some point you have to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

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#63 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:54 AM

Baseball is a business unlike most other businesses. It's marketed as a sport. The sporting motive is sometimes at odds with the profit motive.

General Motors doesn't even begin to pretend that Chevrolet is competing with Buick competing with Cadillac competing with GMC. Deciding to shut down Saturn and Pontiac and Oldsmobile a few years ago wasn't in the same vein as the proposal to shut down the Twins.

If you are going to market as a sporting team, at some point you have to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.


As revenue avenues have skyrocketed over the last 15 years, sports franchises have gone from a psuedo hobby that was also a good long term investment, into one of the most profitable businesses that one can own.
The modern sports franchise owner IS running it like any other business. Sure, there may be a few of the old style left, but the Twins are not one of them. I just think it's time to accept that and move forward.

#64 Vanimal46

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:13 AM

As revenue avenues have skyrocketed over the last 15 years, sports franchises have gone from a psuedo hobby that was also a good long term investment, into one of the most profitable businesses that one can own.
The modern sports franchise owner IS running it like any other business. Sure, there may be a few of the old style left, but the Twins are not one of them. I just think it's time to accept that and move forward.


As revenue avenues have skyrocketed over the last 15 years, you also believe the payroll can't increase with it? It has to be stagnant and hard capped at $120 million?

We just have philosophical differences as fans, Mr. Brooks. I don't doubt that the Pohlads operate the Twins as a very profitable business. It's my biggest gripe I have as a Twins fan.

I don't care what their profit is at the end of each year. I'm not personally invested in them, and I don't have visibility to their financials. No fan does.

Some fans think they do and set an arbitrary number in their minds as the budget. Why? Is it fun to pretend they're working with that budget set in their head and build the best team possible?

What I'm looking for as a fan is for the Front Office to do as they say. Over the winter, Lavine was quoted a couple of times they will supplement this team when the competitive window is open. We haven't seen the stars align like this in over a decade. An actual path to contention, with players performing beyond their projections. No major injuries to speak of.

They could have supplemented this team by simply spending money on Kimbrel or Keuchel. They missed out on their reported priority in Kimbrel. Now we'll see if they trade prospects and take on salary to make this team even better.
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#65 USAFChief

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:58 AM

 

Baseball is a business unlike most other businesses. It's marketed as a sport. The sporting motive is sometimes at odds with the profit motive.

 

General Motors doesn't even begin to pretend that Chevrolet is competing with Buick competing with Cadillac competing with GMC. Deciding to shut down Saturn and Pontiac and Oldsmobile a few years ago wasn't in the same vein as the proposal to shut down the Twins.

 

If you are going to market as a sporting team, at some point you have to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Thank you.

 

The idea that a MLB franchise is "just another business" is preposterous.

 

It's supported using public money, and measured not only by the profit it makes, but also the number of games it wins.

 

And BTW, it IS enormously profitable. The franchise was purchased for $43M, and is currently estimated to be worth over $1B. 

 

http://www.startribu...soar/479444603/

 

If, indeed, these are smart businesspersons who own these franchises, I have trouble believing the value of these franchises would, without fail, rise continuously if they weren't turning a profit.

 

So please don't try to tell me the Pohlads can't spend more money on the team, a team for which the citizens of Hennepin County are paying part of the freight.

 

 

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#66 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:39 AM

Thank you.

The idea that a MLB franchise is "just another business" is preposterous.

It's supported using public money, and measured not only by the profit it makes, but also the number of games it wins.

And BTW, it IS enormously profitable. The franchise was purchased for $43M, and is currently estimated to be worth over $1B.

http://www.startribu...soar/479444603/

If, indeed, these are smart businesspersons who own these franchises, I have trouble believing the value of these franchises would, without fail, rise continuously if they weren't turning a profit.

So please don't try to tell me the Pohlads can't spend more money on the team, a team for which the citizens of Hennepin County are paying part of the freight.


I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying they won't. Period.
No amount of complaining over and over about it is going to change that.
I'd love if they spent more than a perfect business model would suggest. But I realize that isn't going to happen, so why continue to make every thread a cheap Pohlad thread? How is that constructive?
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#67 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:42 AM

As revenue avenues have skyrocketed over the last 15 years, you also believe the payroll can't increase with it? It has to be stagnant and hard capped at $120 million?

We just have philosophical differences as fans, Mr. Brooks. I don't doubt that the Pohlads operate the Twins as a very profitable business. It's my biggest gripe I have as a Twins fan.

I don't care what their profit is at the end of each year. I'm not personally invested in them, and I don't have visibility to their financials. No fan does.

Some fans think they do and set an arbitrary number in their minds as the budget. Why? Is it fun to pretend they're working with that budget set in their head and build the best team possible?

What I'm looking for as a fan is for the Front Office to do as they say. Over the winter, Lavine was quoted a couple of times they will supplement this team when the competitive window is open. We haven't seen the stars align like this in over a decade. An actual path to contention, with players performing beyond their projections. No major injuries to speak of.

They could have supplemented this team by simply spending money on Kimbrel or Keuchel. They missed out on their reported priority in Kimbrel. Now we'll see if they trade prospects and take on salary to make this team even better.


We don't have philosophical differences though Van.
I'd love the players to make more, I'd love the team to spend more.
I just realize the Pohlad's aren't changing, and it's not constructive to complain about it EVERY TIME the team doesn't get a player I want.
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