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Article: Miguel Sano: A Fading Superstar

miguel sano eddie rosario carlos correa francisco lindor
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#41 99mnlife

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 04:28 PM

La vikes fan take a look at buxtons batting average with runners in scoring position. Top 5 in all of baseball... 20 doubles, 3 triples, 7 Homer's and I think 34 rbi batting 9th. I thi k the only reason they dont move Buxton up to bat at the top of the order is they are affraid it will put too much stress on him and he will implode like previous years. I think Buxton is a completely different player now and he is ready. Not to mention last two games a 439 foot homer and 453 foot homer l. The longest two of his entire career.

#42 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 05:17 PM

Guys 1.000 ops with 60 or so at bats is nice but if you think he will have a 1.000 ops after 400 plate appearances I have a six figure wager for you!

Hard hit percentage means how much when the majority of the time there is absolutely no contact made? Factor in all them swings and misses the % swing is probably on the bottom 10% of baseball. Until he learns to hit a good slider he is a incomplete player with gaping holes that can easily be exploited. Come playoff time sano comes up late in a game what happens? They bring in a pitcher with a nasty slider and he may as well close his eyes and swing as hard as he can.


There is no such thing as a player who can hit a good slider. The good ones are unhittable. You hit the bad ones.
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#43 Doomtints

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 05:41 PM

This article is a bad headline over copy that says essentially nothing. I'm speechless. I feel like I just read a very long tweet.

 

Pardon me while I go and wash this stink off my body.

 

 

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#44 MikeW

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:39 PM

It’s a fair question, yet I’m an optimist. Sano has had to mature as a person. My impression is that he has done that. Nothing improves your performance like failing and get back at it again. Sano had a poor 2018 season accompanied by injuries. There is no one who has displayed more exuberance since rejoining the team than Sano. He is carrying an incredibly good attitude. If Miggy can carry a .250 batting average, continue to perform well at 3B, and hit his share of big flies, I’ll be pleased.

#45 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 03:36 AM

How about a slight tweak to the article title:

Albert Pujols: Fading Superstar
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#46 Nine of twelve

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:57 PM

 

How about a slight tweak to the article title:

Albert Pujols: Faded Superstar

ftfy


#47 Craig Arko

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 02:13 PM

Perhaps it’s time to put down the torches and pitchforks and see if the author has any kind of reply to make.
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#48 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 02:16 PM

Perhaps it’s time to put down the torches and pitchforks and see if the author has any kind of reply to make.


And then let's all pick them back up off the ground and go find that dude that bunted to break up a no hitter.

#49 Nine of twelve

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 02:42 PM

 

And then let's all pick them back up off the ground and go find that dude that bunted to break up a no hitter.

I know this is venturing off-topic but I've come around to the point of view that this is OK if it's a close game because in that case the primary purpose of doing it is to try to give your team a chance of winning the game. Breaking up the no-hitter is just collateral damage.

Edit: And BTW if it happens in the first 3 or 4 innings nobody would think twice about it.

Edited by Nine of twelve, 07 June 2019 - 02:44 PM.

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#50 shimrod

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 03:39 PM

I think the eye test belies the numbers. He just looks baffled on so many pitches. 

 

Every time he comes to the plate it's high hopes balanced against low expectations. 

 


#51 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 03:43 PM

I think the eye test belies the numbers. He just looks baffled on so many pitches.

Every time he comes to the plate it's high hopes balanced against low expectations.


Sounds like confirmation bias to me. Every major league hitter looks baffled by a pitch or two every game.
One of my favorite things about baseball is that the numbers most often do tell the story, especially on the hitting side.
There is no such thing as an empty 1.000 OPS.
Nor is hitting mlb pitching so easy that one can just luck into those numbers, or only achieve them by only hitting mistakes.
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#52 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 03:48 PM

I know this is venturing off-topic but I've come around to the point of view that this is OK if it's a close game because in that case the primary purpose of doing it is to try to give your team a chance of winning the game. Breaking up the no-hitter is just collateral damage.
Edit: And BTW if it happens in the first 3 or 4 innings nobody would think twice about it.


I reopened a thread on this.

Our pitchforks and torches need not leave this thread. It earned them.

#53 old nurse

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:48 PM

There is a premise that prospect rankings mean something more than the player has a Chance. Drew Henson sat near the top of these lists for a long time.That someone thought superstar is on them, not Sano. It is hard to be a failure as a superstar when the player never achieved it.Some players develop slower than others, see Nelson Cruz. 


#54 operation mindcrime

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:58 AM

How about a slight tweak to the article title:

Albert Pujols: Fading Superstar

Miguel Cabrera says hello! :)

#55 Sam Morley

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 12:53 PM

Miguel Sano is a very good player. He's a very good hitter and a very good third baseman; today. I think he's probably going to get better. I think he'll probably have several all-star caliber seasons. One determining factor will be whether he can avoid injury or not. Another factor is whether he is motivated to be his best and maintains his optimal performing fitness. Maybe those two factors are connected. I don't feel very confident about him being succesful in either factor. I think avoidance of injury can be connected to both luck and maintainance of fitness. I think maintainance of fitness is connected to work ethic. I think work ethic is connect to character. 

 

I doubt his character. I doubt his work ethic. I doubt his ability/willingness to maintain fitness. I doubt the likelihood of his avoiding injury. I think his pure athletic ability could carry him through a lot, along with some good fortune. 

 

I was a huge Sano fan. Like most TD members, I followed his career from signing- probably on a daily basis through the minor leagues. I don't think I had ever been as excited for a prospect to arrive at the Twins, as I was for Sano. In my mind, he was a superstar before he arrived.

 

When the headlines of assault accusations appeared, I'd hoped it was some silly bar fight or weird confrontation over a misunderstanding, something easy to brush aside or write off. But they turned out to be credible accusations of sexual assault.

 

I don't intend to review that case in this thread. People have made their own conclusions and peace with it, and that's fine, I guess. Mine is that he probably did what he was accused of, and because of that, I personally don't enjoy watching him play in a Twins uniform. Further, I resent the Twins and MLB not addressing it in any meaningful way, thereby passing the ethical/moral dilemma on to fans. Every time I watch Sano, the Twins, any MLB I'm saying 'well, I guess watching baseball is more important to me than standing up against sexual assault.' The entities that had an opportunity to do something about this issue when confronted with it directly, passed on that opportunity. 

 

What a player does on the field is obviously the biggest factor in their level of popularity and recognition, whether or not they reach star status or superstar status or whatever. But what (ASIDE: as I type this, Sano just hit a bomb to right center in whatever the Tigers' stadium is called now) a player does off the field also impacts their popularity and stardom. There's nothing Sano can do on the field that will erase, for me, the wrongness of what he was accused of. Even If there were anything he could do off the field to make up for it, he won't. If he did what he was accused of, he did it because he thought he would get away with it. And he did. The league, the team, and the fans let him off the hook.

 

I began by saying that I think Sano is good and that I think he will get better. I think this because of his talent, and despite his repeatedly demonstrated poor character. But I think that a case can be made that because of his poor character, he will not get better. He will stay the same or get worse. In which case, a reasonable action would be to move him. Therefore, I don't think the premise of this article is as bad as most of the posters in the thread do. 

 

One poster stated that Sano had been cleared of the accusations. If that is referring to the MLB 'investigation', I would say that investigation amounted to a pretty effective cover up. If there has been other exonerating anything, I haven't heard about it, but would like to, as my preference is to watch Sano and all his talent without internal conflict.

 

Otherwise, in order of preference, I suggest:

 

Cut him and sign Mauer

Cut him

Trade him

Mandate attendance of sexual violence awareness classes indefinitely

 

That's just me though, and my opinion is pretty disconnected from his performance. (Though, his long term performance may be connected to his quality of character, which I estimate to be poor).


#56 jctwins

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 06:49 PM

 

Miguel Sano is a very good player. He's a very good hitter and a very good third baseman; today. I think he's probably going to get better. I think he'll probably have several all-star caliber seasons. One determining factor will be whether he can avoid injury or not. Another factor is whether he is motivated to be his best and maintains his optimal performing fitness. Maybe those two factors are connected. I don't feel very confident about him being succesful in either factor. I think avoidance of injury can be connected to both luck and maintainance of fitness. I think maintainance of fitness is connected to work ethic. I think work ethic is connect to character. 

 

I doubt his character. I doubt his work ethic. I doubt his ability/willingness to maintain fitness. I doubt the likelihood of his avoiding injury. I think his pure athletic ability could carry him through a lot, along with some good fortune. 

 

I was a huge Sano fan. Like most TD members, I followed his career from signing- probably on a daily basis through the minor leagues. I don't think I had ever been as excited for a prospect to arrive at the Twins, as I was for Sano. In my mind, he was a superstar before he arrived.

 

When the headlines of assault accusations appeared, I'd hoped it was some silly bar fight or weird confrontation over a misunderstanding, something easy to brush aside or write off. But they turned out to be credible accusations of sexual assault.

 

I don't intend to review that case in this thread. People have made their own conclusions and peace with it, and that's fine, I guess. Mine is that he probably did what he was accused of, and because of that, I personally don't enjoy watching him play in a Twins uniform. Further, I resent the Twins and MLB not addressing it in any meaningful way, thereby passing the ethical/moral dilemma on to fans. Every time I watch Sano, the Twins, any MLB I'm saying 'well, I guess watching baseball is more important to me than standing up against sexual assault.' The entities that had an opportunity to do something about this issue when confronted with it directly, passed on that opportunity. 

 

What a player does on the field is obviously the biggest factor in their level of popularity and recognition, whether or not they reach star status or superstar status or whatever. But what (ASIDE: as I type this, Sano just hit a bomb to right center in whatever the Tigers' stadium is called now) a player does off the field also impacts their popularity and stardom. There's nothing Sano can do on the field that will erase, for me, the wrongness of what he was accused of. Even If there were anything he could do off the field to make up for it, he won't. If he did what he was accused of, he did it because he thought he would get away with it. And he did. The league, the team, and the fans let him off the hook.

 

I began by saying that I think Sano is good and that I think he will get better. I think this because of his talent, and despite his repeatedly demonstrated poor character. But I think that a case can be made that because of his poor character, he will not get better. He will stay the same or get worse. In which case, a reasonable action would be to move him. Therefore, I don't think the premise of this article is as bad as most of the posters in the thread do. 

 

One poster stated that Sano had been cleared of the accusations. If that is referring to the MLB 'investigation', I would say that investigation amounted to a pretty effective cover up. If there has been other exonerating anything, I haven't heard about it, but would like to, as my preference is to watch Sano and all his talent without internal conflict.

 

Otherwise, in order of preference, I suggest:

 

Cut him and sign Mauer

Cut him

Trade him

Mandate attendance of sexual violence awareness classes indefinitely

 

That's just me though, and my opinion is pretty disconnected from his performance. (Though, his long term performance may be connected to his quality of character, which I estimate to be poor).

 

This is well said.

 

To think it's a black and white issue where some fans can't decide they are done supporting him is closed minded.

 

 


#57 Linus

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 06:53 PM

I saw a couple of good signs today. Taking that ball to right center was great and I think he is trying to lay off pitches out of the zone. Time will tell. Regarding the article: Sano has never been a superstar and we would be crazy to trade him right now and probably ever has the upside is immense. And this is coming from a long time Sano doubter
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#58 gbg

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 07:23 PM

And yet, we are nearly on page four discussing it. Exactly what the owners of the site hope for...

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#59 Shane Wahl

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 08:41 AM

LOL. No he isn't. End of story. Prolly stop talking about this.

Yes, I'M BAAAAAAACK!.

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#60 jokin

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 02:22 PM

 

LOL. No he isn't. End of story. Prolly stop talking about this.

Yes, I'M BAAAAAAACK!.

 

Welcome back, Professor!

 

Joyous, fact-based and tireless Twins fan for 40+ years, who unfortunately has been characterized as-

 

"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."




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