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Article: How full is your Minnesota Twins glass?

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#31 mike wants wins

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:17 PM

Wow, that is a lot of optimism for a team 10th in runs scored, and 2nd to last in runs allowed in the AL! I hope TR doesn't agree with you all, because they need to jump about 1 run better (or more) in ERA, and up in runs scored. They are anemic at SS and 2B, everything went right in the OF and 1B and C, and they still were tenth in runs scored. They have no help in AAA for their weak positions at all. They need 3 or 4 starting pitchers, and they have maybe 1-2 internal candidates. To fix this team for next year, they either need career years from their best players and 3-5 free agents, or 5-7 free agents. And we all know they aren't going to sign 5 free agents that fill SS, 2B, 4 starting pitchers, and 1-2 relievers. I obviously am a fan, or I wouldn't keep coming here, but I don't see how you can think this team is on the rise when they have no help in the minors, and have lost this many games in two years.

Do you really think they'll sign enough players to fix the starting pitching? Has any team not in the top 5 in payroll ever signed that many new starters in one year? And, if they deal people, we know they'll keep Arcia and Hicks down and your OF will be Mastrionni as a starter instead of one of them. I'm impressed that you are all so optimistic, but I hope TR is not in agreement with you.

#32 Snortwood

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:49 PM

Kyle Gibson will jump right in and be a ROY candidate


Under Gardenhire the Twins almost never have a viable ROY candidate. Coincidence? I don't think so. Moreover, the idea that a rookie! and a starting pitcher!! might be given that opportunity is almost impossible to conceive.

But desperate times make for desperate measures. We'll see how desperate Gardy is to start winning again if Gibson is ready, we'll see if Ronnie will give him that chance right from Opening Day or make some special patented plea that brings back Pavano (ugh) or some other has been.

#33 Snortwood

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

Middle infield and starting pitching is all they have to fix. Sounds so simple, and yet.. . .

#34 Chris in Osaka

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

The Twins glass is less than half empty, the bottom is cracked, and the water is staining Ryan's desk. Not a pretty sight.

#35 twinsnorth49

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

A lot of stuff about how close this team is and all the good players we have. Yet 129-193 over the last 2 tears, drafted 2nd this year, likely 4th next year. So why is it that all these good players have such a bad record?


Because none of them happen to be pitchers.

#36 twinsnorth49

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

Kyle Gibson will jump right in and be a ROY candidate


Under Gardenhire the Twins almost never have a viable ROY candidate. Coincidence? I don't think so. Moreover, the idea that a rookie! and a starting pitcher!! might be given that opportunity is almost impossible to conceive.


Scott Diamond anybody?

#37 twinsnorth49

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

Half full, as long as the pitching is there and the middle infield isn't a train wreck, is it any more complicated than that?

#38 Shane Wahl

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:24 AM

Half full, as long as the pitching is there and the middle infield isn't a train wreck, is it any more complicated than that?

No it isn't more complicated. But there is some STRONG nay-saying going on around here. The Twins were a COMPLETE mess at the beginning 1/6+ of the season. 7-21 DUE to players who are not going to be around anymore (Pavano, Liriano, Blackburn, and Marquis) is a big deal. And the woes continues for some of them for 1-3 months later. The Twins are truly about 10 games under performance, but most of that is the result of the disaster at the beginning of the season.

#39 Thrylos

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:32 AM

Half full, as long as the pitching is there and the middle infield isn't a train wreck, is it any more complicated than that?

No it isn't more complicated. But there is some STRONG nay-saying going on around here. The Twins were a COMPLETE mess at the beginning 1/6+ of the season. 7-21 DUE to players who are not going to be around anymore (Pavano, Liriano, Blackburn, and Marquis) is a big deal. And the woes continues for some of them for 1-3 months later. The Twins are truly about 10 games under performance, but most of that is the result of the disaster at the beginning of the season.


I think that there is part of the root cause of the problem...

Other that Liriano, the current regime is the one who thought that Pavano should get a hefty extension for mediocre performance and Blackburn too (btw, he will be back, if Gardy and Andy and Terry are around, mark my words) and gave up the green light to sign Marquis who had be mediocre.

So Pavano, Blackburn and Marquis are the symptoms in my book
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#40 kab21

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:10 AM

Half full, as long as the pitching is there and the middle infield isn't a train wreck, is it any more complicated than that?

No it isn't more complicated. But there is some STRONG nay-saying going on around here. The Twins were a COMPLETE mess at the beginning 1/6+ of the season. 7-21 DUE to players who are not going to be around anymore (Pavano, Liriano, Blackburn, and Marquis) is a big deal. And the woes continues for some of them for 1-3 months later. The Twins are truly about 10 games under performance, but most of that is the result of the disaster at the beginning of the season.


Let's ignore that just about everything (aside from MI) went perfectly for the Twins on offense. And they still had an average offense. Or that there's only one starter on the team that anyone has any confidence in.

#41 nokomismod

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:47 AM

If I was a Pohlad or concerned about the Twins bottom line, I chose the win now path versus rebuild mode to win 2 years from now. I think you trade Morneau to dump his salary and go with Parmalee at first. Keep Span and Revere, and bring in two starting pitchers.

#42 LaBombo

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:13 PM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='LastOnePicked'][quote name='Seth Stohs']If I've learned anything from the last two years, I'll take a competitive in the division team anytime over a team that may win a World Series once every 8 years and be poor 6 of the other 7 years. [/QUOTE]


Seth, I admire your writing and I appreciate everything you contribute to Twins baseball talk, but I totally don't get this perspective. We've had enough of this route to failure over the last decade, and a pathetic three-and-out against the Yankees puts a far worse taste in my mouth than a stinky season with the promise of a stronger draft. It bothers me that people say "anything can happen in the playoffs" --which is proveably false. Carl Pavano cannot magically become Curt Schilling in the postseason. Danny Valencia cannot become Miguel Cabrera. Ron Gardenhire cannot become Tony LaRussa. You get out of the playoffs what you bring into it. The Twins brought nothing into the postseason over the last decade, and got exactly that out of it. The trophy is never a guarantee, but, c'mon, there's a reason why the Yankees considered drawing the Twins a first-round bye. And they were right.[/QUOTE]

It's a sound philosophy because baseball, more than any other sport, has the "best team on paper" losing to an "inferior team". The 2006 Cards were not the best team in baseball on paper, yet they won the World Series.

You can't get to the World Series without making the playoffs. After that, anything can happen. I'm all for the Twins pushing harder to make trades to push them over the top in years they are competitive but the idea of "building a World Series team in March" is a ridiculously impossible challenge. You do your best to field a competitive team, then you supplement that team mid-season in years where you think you have a real shot to win it all (2006 and 2010 come to mind).

The Twins have been very good at building a competitor. They have not been good at pushing hard to build a WS team mid-season.

But before you build that "WS team", you need to be competitive. Walk before you run. The Twins are awful right now. Their first step should be a return to legitimacy, not burning it all down and hoping that 500 things come together perfectly in 2016 and they become a world-beater because chances are that most of those 500 things required to build a world-beater just won't happen on the timeline you hoped to see. All you have to do is look through the recent histories of really bad MLB franchises to see how "building to win it all" often leads to "more losing seasons as prospects sputter and fail".[/QUOTE]

You're failing to acknowledge an entire decade of Twins baseball history, other than the meaningless references to 2006 and 2010. "Just make the playoffs" resulted in the one of the most embarrassing postseason losing streaks in the history of sports.

#43 Wolfy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:26 PM

The glass is pretty full. They need two players to make an enormous difference, but they would be two BIG players.

They need a guy to hit behind Morneau who has the ability to hit like Shane Mack did. Doumit is an okay player, but this guy needs to hit further down in the order.

They need an Ace/Stopper/Staff Horse. That guy will make everyone better and give them confidence, take pressure off them, and allow them to relax and not try to do too much.

That is two guys who will cost the Twins a lot of money. But it would be better than 5 guys who would cost the same amount or less that weren't capable of the same kind of impact.

It didn't even take 90 wins to grab the division this year. You can expect the same next year.

#44 TheLeviathan

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

Let's ignore that just about everything (aside from MI) went perfectly for the Twins on offense. And they still had an average offense. Or that there's only one starter on the team that anyone has any confidence in.


And until May most people thought he was AAA filler. And people keep saying nothing went well.....

#45 LaBombo

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:01 PM

Let's ignore that just about everything (aside from MI) went perfectly for the Twins on offense. And they still had an average offense. Or that there's only one starter on the team that anyone has any confidence in.


And until May most people thought he was AAA filler. And people keep saying nothing went well.....


Don't forget the bullpen, which outperformed expectations, and whose coach was fired today...