Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Photo

Article: Should Twins Emulate White Sox?

  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 4,918 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:22 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...ulate-White-Sox

#2 Parker Hageman

Parker Hageman

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 1,311 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:17 PM

*Ozzie Guillen.

#3 glunn

glunn

    Head Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 5,101 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:29 PM

Interesting article. I would rather see the Twins target a World Series in three or four years than try to win the division next year.

#4 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,284 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:42 PM

i always like Carlos Guillen. Solid big league hitter for a lot of years!!

#5 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 4,918 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:02 AM

Fixed. Now I've got to go fix it on the Strib. Stupid late-night writing....

#6 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

I could just as easily post this response over on Seth's "half full or half empty" post, but I'll put it here.

I'm not sure what makes anyone think that blowing things up and targeting 2016-17 is even an option. Maybe in a Fantasy Keeper League you can do that kind of thing, but this is a real business we're talking about. Project three more years of losing baseball and just how many people do you think will be going to games? What kind of ratings do you think games will get on television and what will that do to media rights revenues? Considering the obvious answers to those questions, what kind of payroll do you imagine the Twins affording by 2016 (keeping in mind that over $20 million a year will still be going to Mauer)?

There is only one option for a real business like the Twins and that's to, at the very least, attempt to make some kind of improvement every season. You don't need to go out and get 35-year-old veterans on their last legs, but Terry Ryan is right about this... he and his staff need to just keep doing better jobs at exploring all options... developing from within, making trades, and signing free agents.

#7 one_eyed_jack

one_eyed_jack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 590 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:40 AM

Interesting article. I would rather see the Twins target a World Series in three or four years than try to win the division next year.


---I'd like to see them do both. I don't think trying to win now and building for tomorrow has to be an either/or choice.

Look, I don't view the White Sox as something to aspire to. They were a nice surprise this year not really built for long-term success. But given where the Twins are, if they're going to compete in any way in 2013, they'll have to do it the way the White Sox did this year. Career years from multiple veterans and solid pitching which allow them to win a weak division by feasting on bottom-feeders. (Whiteys are 28-12 vs Twins, Indians and Cubs. 56-64 vs. everyone else.)

I'd certainly prefer that to suffering through another 90+ losses anyway.

But that should be in addition to, not instead of, building a stronger organization at all levels.

#8 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,343 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:43 AM

I could just as easily post this response over on Seth's "half full or half empty" post, but I'll put it here.

I'm not sure what makes anyone think that blowing things up and targeting 2016-17 is even an option. Maybe in a Fantasy Keeper League you can do that kind of thing, but this is a real business we're talking about. Project three more years of losing baseball and just how many people do you think will be going to games? What kind of ratings do you think games will get on television and what will that do to media rights revenues? Considering the obvious answers to those questions, what kind of payroll do you imagine the Twins affording by 2016 (keeping in mind that over $20 million a year will still be going to Mauer)?

There is only one option for a real business like the Twins and that's to, at the very least, attempt to make some kind of improvement every season. You don't need to go out and get 35-year-old veterans on their last legs, but Terry Ryan is right about this... he and his staff need to just keep doing better jobs at exploring all options... developing from within, making trades, and signing free agents.


But but the 2014 All Star game is at Target Field and if you get your season tickets now you get a priority for All Star tickets. Don't worry about the product on the field, please please focus on that All Star game.
This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

#9 one_eyed_jack

one_eyed_jack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 590 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:44 AM

I could just as easily post this response over on Seth's "half full or half empty" post, but I'll put it here.

I'm not sure what makes anyone think that blowing things up and targeting 2016-17 is even an option. Maybe in a Fantasy Keeper League you can do that kind of thing, but this is a real business we're talking about. Project three more years of losing baseball and just how many people do you think will be going to games? What kind of ratings do you think games will get on television and what will that do to media rights revenues? Considering the obvious answers to those questions, what kind of payroll do you imagine the Twins affording by 2016 (keeping in mind that over $20 million a year will still be going to Mauer)?

There is only one option for a real business like the Twins and that's to, at the very least, attempt to make some kind of improvement every season. You don't need to go out and get 35-year-old veterans on their last legs, but Terry Ryan is right about this... he and his staff need to just keep doing better jobs at exploring all options... developing from within, making trades, and signing free agents.


---Agreed. And how many multi-year "rebuilding" projects actually come to fruition anyway? I don't think a lot of teams win the World Series, then look back and say, "Yep, this is exactly how we pictured it happening when we sat down planned it out 4 years ago."

I've never liked the word "rebuidling". Too often "we're rebuilding" is little more than a euphemism for "we suck".

#10 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Cynical Oldie

  • Members
  • 3,512 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:00 AM

Okay, as I see it, they not only went out and got a bunch of veterans, they also got a new manager.

And I strongly believe that staffing changes (field staff and front office) are necessary to inject some vitality back into this organization (an entire re-evaluation of their system would be good).

Because I don't want them to merely return to their "winning ways" of 2002-2010. I want them to become genuinely competitive vis a vis the best teams in the league.

And as we all know, that means that they have to have significantly better starting pitching. Not just better than 2011 and 2012 but better than many of their division championship teams. You can stop-gap some of the bleeding over the next year or two so it isn't quite so ugly (the money is there to do so) but somehow, somewhere you've got to get pitching. And I don't see how you do that without trading some of your assets.

I agree with one-eyed-jack that you can do both (or at least some of both) but if push comes to shove, I want it to come down on the organizational strength side.

#11 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,507 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:09 AM

The White Sox had a decent season but in the end, they still missed the playoffs.

Now they're looking at either losing their second best pitcher or drastically overpaying him for one more season, their roster continues to age, and they have an abysmal farm system. Their future is more bleak than the Twins, their payroll is hamstrung more than Minnesota, and they didn't even make the playoffs because of it.

So, no, I don't think the Twins should be more like the White Sox.

#12 Rick Blaine

Rick Blaine

    Member

  • Members
  • 96 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:11 AM

Interesting article. Things could play out that way except I really expect Span or/and Morneau to be traded this off season.
Justin may have played his last game as a Twin:(

#13 J-Dog Dungan

J-Dog Dungan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 660 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:52 AM

Yeah, I think trying to be like the White Sox is something for the Twins to avoid. They have been getting better and better reviews of their farm system, especially this year, where they had 4+ guys on the Top 100 prospects list (should have been more in my opinion), and now have the 14th rated farm system. The Sox are like rated last or very, very close to dead last. Yes, it will take some time for the talent to come up from the minors, and yes, if the Twins want to compete this offseason, they will need to pick up some arms in FA or in trades, with the caveat that we shouldn't give up too many of our top prospects because we have no idea what will happen with them five years down the road.

#14 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,660 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

Should the Twins emulate the White Sox? Well the Twins shouldn't continually resign aging bats and pray they don't finally break down, but they should copy the Sox by finally acknowledging that investing in pitching is a neccesity.

#15 clutterheart

clutterheart

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 650 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

White Sox have an some interesting young pitchers and a willingness to spend a lot of money. They haven't let a few bad contracts destroy their organization. Their GM is brash and they take huge risks. They seem to ask for accountability.

I wish i was a white sox fan.

#16 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 5,815 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

Is the question should the Twins give horrible AAA pitchers jobs as SP and RP, or call up capable guys from their system to fill the bullpen, while signing 3 legit free agents? Yes, they should do that. Why not?

The Royals have a great farm system, the Astros and Pirates have been rebuilding forever. Either you think it is worth trying to win with Mauer, or you are flushing a ton of money down the toilet.

How could it hurt to deal meh minor leaguers to fill a hole at SS or 2B? How could it hurt to sign a FA pitcher or three, given that maybe 1 or 2 guys are within 2 years of being a starting pitcher for this team? Who will it hold back if they sign 2-3 pitchers? Who will it hold back if they trade for a SS?

"it will take 3-4 years to be good again"....really? you think they should punt on the next 3-4 years? What are the odds all those players work out at the same time?

Signing free agents does not keep you from drafting and developing players, it fills in holes that you have not developed well.

#17 Montecore

Montecore

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 121 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:45 PM

So long as Gardenhire's the manager they'll be one of the worst teams in the game. No one wants to play for a moron.