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Souhan: Mauer is Twins 2019 Most Valuable Pensioner

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#41 Vanimal46

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 10:17 AM

Can we implement this feature?

http://twinsdaily.co...ic/#entry826470
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#42 gil4

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 10:26 AM

 

Which means the title could have just as easily have been 'Brian Dozier is Twins' 2019 MVP' since Jonathan Schoop is better than he was too.

Co-MVP's?

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#43 Riverbrian

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 10:26 AM

 

Was that the point anyone made?

If course it doesnt "kill" the 2019 Twins. One player doesnt make or break a baseball team. I know you know this, so I know you know better than to ask this question.

But with Mauer they dont have Cruz. They probably don't have Cron. They would be making accommodations and compromises to fit Mauer into the lineup. They'd have scored fewer runs, and have a worse W/L record.

Just like the last 5 years or so.

 

It did seem like the point being made. The article was titled "Mauer is Twins 2019 Most Valuable Pensioner". You seem to concur with the article. I do know that you are deeper than what you seemed to concur. :)

 

The Twins did lose 23 million off the payroll with Joe's retirement but you have to add up what you shed off the payroll from Ervin Santana, Brian Dozier, Phil Hughes, Logan Morrison, Zach Duke, Lance Lynn, Fernando Rodney, Eduardo Escobar, Ryan Pressly, Logan Forsythe, Robbie Grossman. 

 

You know you can't just simplify it with "Joe out... Nelson in" or it just comes out as an unnecessary attack on Joe Mauer. The front office turned a roster over. It didn't just remove Joe Mauer and say "Now we can win".Like all we had to do was get rid of Joe. 

 

The article gives this impression. The article is wrong. 

 

 

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#44 Sconnie

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 11:39 AM

1. The Twins don't operate under spending limitations? C'mon.

2. The Twins aren't getting better production from that $23m? C'mon.

3. Giving first base, and a guaranteed spot high in the batting order, to a light hitting player who also needed time off often wasnt one factor in keeping the Twins down in recent years? C'mon.

they haven’t spent that 23 mil.

#45 Diesel

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 02:52 PM

Joe Mauer doesn't deserve that much slander
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#46 USAFChief

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 02:57 PM

 

Joe Mauer doesn't deserve that much slander

What slander?

 

This (from the column)?

 

He will soon be in the Twins Hall of Fame. Perhaps, in a few years, he will be in baseball’s.

He is one of the greatest athletes in Minnesota history, and only injuries kept him from becoming one of the best-hitting catchers in baseball history.

He is the embodiment of the supposed Minnesota sporting ethic: diligent, humble and team-oriented. When he donned his gear one last time, he provided the emotional highlight of the 2018 season.

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#47 USAFChief

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 02:59 PM

What is obvious is that most (all?) of you didn't even read the column.

 

You just see "Joe Mauer" and automatically go into "Must defend at all costs" mode.

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#48 Diesel

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 03:12 PM

What is obvious is that most (all?) of you didn't even read the column.

You just see "Joe Mauer" and automatically go into "Must defend at all costs" mode.


Nah, I was referring to the article, not the commenters. I don't like any article that gives a bunch of good things, but then a big BUT... Just get to the point.

#49 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:05 PM

You are absolutely right.

My disgust over the Souhan article is a personal preference for news without a slant but I understand better than most that the reason that news has a slant is because we as a group tend to choose slant.


Souhan is a columnist, not a beat reporter.
It's literally his job title to give his slant on the news.

You can disagree with his opinion, like I do often enough to no longer read him, but I don't begrudge the guy for literally doing his job.

#50 Riverbrian

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:18 PM

 

Souhan is a columnist, not a beat reporter.
It's literally his job title to give his slant on the news.

You can disagree with his opinion, like I do often enough to no longer read him, but I don't begrudge the guy for literally doing his job.

 

I understand the difference. 

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#51 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:26 PM

What is obvious is that most (all?) of you didn't even read the column.

You just see "Joe Mauer" and automatically go into "Must defend at all costs" mode.

I read it, I don’t particularly care for Mauer, and it still read like sour grapes.

It sounded like a hack, who’s only schtick is to (usually deservedly) rip the local team, found himself terribly obsolete because there was so little to rag on so far this year.

#52 USAFChief

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:12 PM

I read it, I don’t particularly care for Mauer, and it still read like sour grapes.

It sounded like a hack, who’s only schtick is to (usually deservedly) rip the local team, found himself terribly obsolete because there was so little to tag on so far this year.

local hack gets ripped mercilessly for questioning Mauer, Mauer retires, team improves, local hack gets ripped mercilessly for questioning Mauer
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#53 SQUIRREL

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:28 PM

 

local hack gets ripped mercilessly for questioning Mauer, Mauer retires, team improves, local hack gets ripped mercilessly for questioning Mauer

The team is better this year. By a long shot. And it's fun and enjoyable to watch. I think there a lot of reasons for that, and not just one, as implied. And yes, I read the article. Meh, whatever. It didn't really say much and it's much the defenders and the opposite of that making the mountains out of molehills here. Cron is a step up at first over Mauer. Cruz is a step up over Morrison. We're also better because Dozier is gone and Schoop is, well, better there, too. Glad we have Polanco from the beginning. Didn't see any of that mentioned in the article or by others. We're better because Molitor is gone, too. And several others. We're also better because of huge steps forward by several players. The only one I'd have liked to have kept was Escobar. You make it sound like we're winning solely because Mauer is no longer on the team. That really isn't true. It's a team effort all the way around ... the past team members who are gone, the past manager and coaches who are gone, the players, manager and coaches who replaced them. To make this all about one player, and lay it all at one person's feet as Souhan has and as you are defending ... well, guess I can't say what that is, but it's the opposite of seeing Mauer's name in the title and running to do the opposite of defend at all costs.

 

Mauer is gone. Gone. I don't think he's the reason this team is winning, here or not.

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#54 wickedslider

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:51 PM

I don't think Mauer was a bad teammate or bad in the clubhouse. He just isn't the type of teammate who inspired others via demonstrative actions ala Puckett. Nor was he a partier blasting music in the clubhouse. I think of him as more of a "cool as a cucumber" type of guy. Nothing wrong with that. It would be worse if he tried to force himself to be "that guy" as it would seem forced and not genuine. Joe was cerebral as a player.If he'd have chosen football instead of baseball, you'd want that "cool as a cucumber" attitude in your QB. And I'd say that as catcher it was a good way to approach the position while figuring out how to help his pitchers approach each hitter.

Many people think you need rah rah leaders on every team in every sport but for the daily grind of baseball, you walk a fine line with that rah rah stuff. Too much of it and it gets tuned out, especially if your team is losing. Rah Rah leadership is much more effective on a football field where the game is played once a week, and emotions play a bigger part in the outcome.

BB players don't jump around and preen after almost every play like football players do. They hold their emotions a bit closer to the vest. Tom Kelly always preached the "not to high, not to low" approach to playing BB. Sure you like competitive guys like Gladden and Puckett but Gladden wasn't known as being a leader, Puckett was.

Baseball players seem to prefer to save their on field excitement for really big moments i.e. dramatic HR's, walkoff wins, or in the locker room afterwards, while celebrating a victory.

Edited by wickedslider, 25 May 2019 - 07:01 PM.

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#55 Darius

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:52 PM

This is just asinine.

Mauer is an encyclopedia of baseball knowledge. He’s one of the best bat handlers to ever walk the planet. He plays a high-end first base.

You can’t tell me having that on the 25 man would make it worse. That is some of the most ridiculous arm-chair GM’ing from people who don’t know a damn thing that I’ve seen.

The team (whoever it may be) refusing to invest in a quality product has been the issue up until this year. They just happened to strike gold with Schoop, Cron, Cruz and Perez out of bargain bin, along with the drastic developmental jumps of Polanco, Buxton, Garver, etc. that not one single person on earth saw coming.

Let’s not go totally insane here. Nobody in their right mind can legitimately think that Mauer leaving turned the worm, because he was mild mannered.

I’ve seen some dumb takes in my day....but this takes the cake.

Edited by Darius, 25 May 2019 - 06:56 PM.


#56 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:55 PM

 

The polite way to say this is gaining Baldelli helped this team MUCH more.

Thank you.


#57 USAFChief

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:56 PM

The team is better this year. By a long shot. And it's fun and enjoyable to watch. I think there a lot of reasons for that, and not just one, as implied. And yes, I read the article. Meh, whatever. It didn't really say much and it's much the defenders and the opposite of that making the mountains out of molehills here. Cron is a step up at first over Mauer. Cruz is a step up over Morrison. We're also better because Dozier is gone and Schoop is, well, better there, too. Glad we have Polanco from the beginning. Didn't see any of that mentioned in the article or by others. We're better because Molitor is gone, too. And several others. We're also better because of huge steps forward by several players. The only one I'd have liked to have kept was Escobar. You make it sound like we're winning solely because Mauer is no longer on the team. That really isn't true. It's a team effort all the way around ... the past team members who are gone, the past manager and coaches who are gone, the players, manager and coaches who replaced them. To make this all about one player, and lay it all at one person's feet as Souhan has and as you are defending ... well, guess I can't say what that is, but it's the opposite of seeing Mauer's name in the title and running to do the opposite of defend at all costs.

Mauer is gone. Gone. I don't think he's the reason this team is winning, here or not.


If I make it sound like Mauer being gone is the only reason the Twins are better, either I've been horrible at explaining myself, or you have misunderstood me.

Or both.

I dont think anyone has said that. But pointing out that Mauer's retirement has been beneficial, and A cause for the Twins surge, isnt wrong.

I dont know why anyone would attack Souhan (or me) for that.

Its accurate.
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#58 SQUIRREL

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:05 PM

 

If I make it sound like Mauer being gone is the only reason the Twins are better, either I've been horrible at explaining myself, or you have misunderstood me.

Or both.

I dont think anyone has said that. But pointing out that Mauer's retirement has been beneficial, and A cause for the Twins surge, isnt wrong.

I dont know why anyone would attack Souhan (or me) for that.

Its accurate.

Let me rephrase then ... the primary reason. I don't think that's true or accurate. There is just so much that goes into this game, many people - players, coaches/manager, FO - to say Joe is the primary reason the team is winning this year ... I don't buy it nor agree with it. And I am glad he's gone. Not because I disliked him ... he was what he was ... I felt there were far worse out there, and that there were better out there for where he was in his final years. As much as I liked Dozier over the years, I'm glad they traded him off last year. I'm glad they really pared players away (except for Esco) and ecstatic Molitor is gone. I think many of those are bigger reasons for more success this year than Joe being gone. Or maybe they are all equal reasons ... they are all just part of the pile of why this team is better this year. But Joe is not the primary reason this team is better, and that is exactly what Souhan said and you seem to be defending; and that I disagree with.

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#59 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:41 PM

Souhan did imply pretty heavily that it was the "key" reason.  

 

I'm not sure he wouldn't be a good fit for this club as a guy to trot around first after the guy after him knocks it out of the park.That said, I think we're getting pretty similar defense from Cron and more production at a fraction of the price.

 

So moving on from Mauer probably was helpful for the team.But so is having Buxton in CF and hitting.So is having Schoop over Dozier.So is having three catchers that can hit.So is having The Almighty Wes Johnson.So is watching Rosario and Kepler progressing.So is seeing Polanco become a star.  

 

With all those things, it does seem an unnecessary personal jab to lay that all on Mauer. 

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#60 BBAM

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:49 PM

First of all did they cut the number of articles you can read per month from 10 to 2? Fine with me I wouldn't pay that newspaper ten cents to have unlimited the whole year for other reasons than sports.I think writing that about Mauer really wasn't needed even though many probably wonder how much it has to do with how this team is doing now.They have many of the same players they are just a really gelled team now.There are no favorites and they seem to feed off each other.No pitcher want to be the first to lose and the hitters want to be part of the incredible HR stats.I think having Cruz as a leader for our mostly Latino team helps and as much as I loved Dozier he was really a drag on this team all of last year and half of the two years before.No team should be playing someone in that long of a funk.I think things would have gone better if Mauer would have learned right field instead of 1st.It was obvious we needed a power-hitting 1st baseman for the last 3-4 years.His OBP was great and he deserved a place in the line up for sure.Having a true DH instead of cobbling together different playershas also helped.Not sure what has influenced Sano and Buxton but keep it coming whatever it is.I think all players know that there are plenty of options on the bench if they are not giving 110% and this new management doesn't seem to be a group that will play someone just because of past accomplishments.I am so excited and having so much fun watching this team.I can't wait for the day's Berrios pitches and every at bat anything is possible. 

Edited by BBAM, 25 May 2019 - 08:52 PM.