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Did Liam Hendriks show you enough??

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#21 Riverbrian

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

He hasn't shown me enough yet. I'd like to see him pitch more so he can.

#22 notoriousgod71

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:02 PM

Hendricks has been brutal save for two starts this season. Even in this putrid rotation he is not one of the top five pitchers at this point.

#23 Badsmerf

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

Hendricks has been brutal save for two starts this season. Even in this putrid rotation he is not one of the top five pitchers at this point.

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#24 gil4

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:56 PM

Some people think that ERA is not a good measurement of performance...



Really? Who?

I can understand someone saying that it is an imprecise measure and that there are better available, but it still is a good indicator of overall performance, especially for starting pitchers.

Now W-L is another story...

#25 Willihammer

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:23 AM

If we are talking about next year then no ERA is not a good predictor compared to FIP, xFIP or the best, SIERA.

#26 Oxtung

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

If we are talking about next year then no ERA is not a good predictor compared to FIP, xFIP or the best, SIERA.


If you're talking about next year then none of those are good predictors because they're not predictive tools. They all are measurements of what has already happened and tell you nothing about what is to come. It is up to each individual to meld various inputs of past data and come to a reasonable prediction of future results. As such ERA is just as viable a tool as any others. There are no crystal balls.

#27 3up3down

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:25 PM

Twinsnorth, I see it just the opposite, I think Hendricks make up(mettle) is not good at all, you can find a lot of the interviews on the web and you see Hendricks happy & carrinig on about how good he pitched & how good it was to shut out a line up like the tigers, while it is good & he should be pleased with his outing , that's not the way to act , your team just lost another game you started, your team has lost over 90 games , it's no time to be laughing in the clubhouse or talking about how good you pitched. He just doesn't get it yet...on the other hand you have a guy like Walters who kills his numbers by trying to pitch hurt, it was reported he was hurting after his complete game,but he started 3 more after that, then when he came back & pitched bad he took it all on himself, even after his last start where he pitched pretty well he was very unsatisfied because his team lost, that's the type guy I want in the clubhouse, those types will make the team better eventually. Just my opinion..

#28 Badsmerf

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

Twinsnorth, I see it just the opposite, I think Hendricks make up(mettle) is not good at all, you can find a lot of the interviews on the web and you see Hendricks happy & carrinig on about how good he pitched & how good it was to shut out a line up like the tigers, while it is good & he should be pleased with his outing , that's not the way to act , your team just lost another game you started, your team has lost over 90 games , it's no time to be laughing in the clubhouse or talking about how good you pitched. He just doesn't get it yet...on the other hand you have a guy like Walters who kills his numbers by trying to pitch hurt, it was reported he was hurting after his complete game,but he started 3 more after that, then when he came back & pitched bad he took it all on himself, even after his last start where he pitched pretty well he was very unsatisfied because his team lost, that's the type guy I want in the clubhouse, those types will make the team better eventually. Just my opinion..


At 23 Walters split time between AA and AAA. He had a 4.5 ERA in 158 IP 70BB 156SO 1.44 WHIP. Hendriks posted 2.2 ERA in 106 IP 28BB 82SO .978 WHIP in AAA after starting the season with the Twins. Walters would have looked promising 5 years ago when he reached AA at 22 and put up some decent numbers. After that season, he was too hittable, and it didn't help he walked a good amount of people. This isn't debatable. Walters doesn't deserve a roster spot on an MLB team. He is a filler in case someone goes down with an injury. That is his role. The one thing you left out is the fact Hendriks has documented talent while Walters has had injuries and terrible results. Lets not make this argument about how a player should or shouldn't act because you have no idea what goes on. I provided clear examples of why Hendriks is a much better option than Walters simply because you offered him up. What more does Hendriks have to do in the minors to be "ready?" He is young and needs to learn to pitch in the big leagues. That's it. At some point in the next few years we will know what kind of pitcher he is going to be by the results and adjustments he makes. That is how player development works.
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#29 3up3down

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:33 PM

I never said Walters deserved a roster spot on a MLB team, but you think Hendricks deserves one, c'mon...you bring up Walters #s and injuries, this is the 1st time he has ever missed a start in his carreer and put Hendricks in the PCL & let's revisit his stats..Walters was never given a opportunity with the cardinals , if Hendricks was in the cards org with Larussa as his mgr there isn't a doubt in my mind he would not be on the 40 man right now, he should be thankful he's a twin...some of these guys really got ther first real opportunity this year..some did ok , some not so good & Walters unfortunately got injured. I just said after watching all of them this year of the guys that I think might compete for the #5 spot I liked Walters.

#30 twinsnorth49

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

Twinsnorth, I see it just the opposite, I think Hendricks make up(mettle) is not good at all, you can find a lot of the interviews on the web and you see Hendricks happy & carrinig on about how good he pitched & how good it was to shut out a line up like the tigers, while it is good & he should be pleased with his outing , that's not the way to act , your team just lost another game you started, your team has lost over 90 games , it's no time to be laughing in the clubhouse or talking about how good you pitched. He just doesn't get it yet...on the other hand you have a guy like Walters who kills his numbers by trying to pitch hurt, it was reported he was hurting after his complete game,but he started 3 more after that, then when he came back & pitched bad he took it all on himself, even after his last start where he pitched pretty well he was very unsatisfied because his team lost, that's the type guy I want in the clubhouse, those types will make the team better eventually. Just my opinion..


Just because Hendriks felt good about how he pitched (which he deserved to), doesn't mean he was happy his team lost. Just because you act like a sour puss and walk around with a pissy look on your face does not mean you're any more a team player and has nothing to do with how good a player you are. That's the same kind of thinking everyone uses to say Joe Mauer isn't a leader, because he's not stalking up and down the dugout shouting his head off or throwing bats or whatever it is "winners" do. Tim Keown pretty much proved what a bunch of bunk that is.

Hendriks still has lots to work on, but again, he's 23, has a solid minor league track record and has shown signs of being able to execute and string together some solid innings. Once he starts to figure what he can get away with and what he can't to big league hitters I think he'll be alright.

#31 3up3down

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:43 AM

i am one that thinks mauer is a leader, its just the way i see it, and maybe the way media sees it, you saw it all year with pitchers when things didnt go there way, full of excuses, broken bat singles, bloops, all that stuff & it wasnt just hendricks, after a walters interview , they said finally some accountability, thats just what i like to see. i dont want to see bats thrown or sour faces either.thats not what i meant..hendricks may turn out to be ok, i hope he does, this whole topic asked had he shown enough to have a spot in the rotation, my answer is absolutely not, but he has shown enough to compete for a spot..

#32 Siehbiscuit

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:15 AM

Liam Hendrks spot is completely dependant on what the Twins do in the off-season. Is there any chance that the Reds would look at Span and maybe a mid-tier prospect like Max Kepler for Aroldis Chapman?

#33 Badsmerf

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

Liam Hendrks spot is completely dependant on what the Twins do in the off-season. Is there any chance that the Reds would look at Span and maybe a mid-tier prospect like Max Kepler for Aroldis Chapman?

No.
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#34 Falcon25

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:08 AM

I never said Walters deserved a roster spot on a MLB team, but you think Hendricks deserves one, c'mon...you bring up Walters #s and injuries, this is the 1st time he has ever missed a start in his carreer and put Hendricks in the PCL & let's revisit his stats..Walters was never given a opportunity with the cardinals , if Hendricks was in the cards org with Larussa as his mgr there isn't a doubt in my mind he would not be on the 40 man right now, he should be thankful he's a twin...some of these guys really got ther first real opportunity this year..some did ok , some not so good & Walters unfortunately got injured. I just said after watching all of them this year of the guys that I think might compete for the #5 spot I liked Walters.

Would it surprise you to learn that statistically Hendriks was the leading starting pitcher over the last 30 days. This does not mean much other than he is heading the right way and as the youngest starting pitcher in the twins is starting to learn more about what is required at the top level. He has to continue making improvements but go and asked the clubbier who is the hardest working pitcher and Hendriks name will feature very prominently. As to his post game comments, he answered the question asked and after coming off a 4 home run game and against another sound hitting team he had every right to be happy!!!!

#35 Dilligaf69

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:28 AM

Hendriks will get a shot if for nothing other then they really don't have many other options...that of course depending on what they do this winter. That said he's proven he can pitch in AAA so that leaves the Twins, now whether he improves enough this offseason is the big question but he's definitely in the mix as well as DeVries and Walters..If i had to guess i'd say 1 of those 3 will be in the rotaion come April 1st.. That leaves Diamond and 3 ??? for the rotation with Gibson and I believe Baker as mid season cadidates.