Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Plouffe... for real?

  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 Badsmerf

Badsmerf

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,655 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:34 PM

Will the real Plouffe please stand up? Is it possible his thumb is still impacting his play so much that he can be posting a .591 OPS in September? I can't believe this is the same guy that was destroying every fastball thrown to him in June. Maybe he is just lost right now and Gardy is letting him work through his struggles, but man I just keep waiting for him to turn the corner again and it just wont happen. I guess this season is about over so there isn't much pain left to endure. Everything about his season had been positive until he got hurt though, for what its worth. I just hope he can come in next season healthy and put together a solid season.

#2 Alex

Alex

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 978 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:04 PM

Will the real Plouffe please stand up? Is it possible his thumb is still impacting his play so much that he can be posting a .591 OPS in September? I can't believe this is the same guy that was destroying every fastball thrown to him in June. Maybe he is just lost right now and Gardy is letting him work through his struggles, but man I just keep waiting for him to turn the corner again and it just wont happen. I guess this season is about over so there isn't much pain left to endure. Everything about his season had been positive until he got hurt though, for what its worth. I just hope he can come in next season healthy and put together a solid season.


From what I remember, they said it would affect him all season until he was able to rest it.

#3 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,022 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:08 PM

I would suggest that his last 5-6 years of baseball are probably more indicative than one ridiculous three week stretch. Defensively he's played better than expected though, no reason not to let him try next year.

#4 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 554 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:36 PM

I bet the thumb area where Plouffe bruised the bone hurts a lot, but it's manageable with anti-inflammatory drugs. It's one thing to have a slow-healing bone bruise, it's another to keep using that area to swing a baseball bat, including those wonderful inside pitches that make the bat transfer all the ball's energy to the injured spot.

I can't tell you that Trevor Plouffe will re-emerge as a star hitter next spring, but at least he'll be able to swing the bat normally. If his hand is fully healed, he's got a good chance to start knocking the ball around again.

#5 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:41 PM

I look at Plouffe as a guy who will hit for around a 100-105 ops+ with 20-25 HR and play a solid but not great 3B for the twins moving fwd. that isn't all star or MVP type production but it's damn solid out of your number 7 hitter and certainly the best 3rd base option we have seen in many years. Also there is always the chance he greatly exceeds those numbers and proved the injury is what is causing his current struggles.

#6 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,022 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 07:35 AM

Also there is always the chance he greatly exceeds those numbers and proved the injury is what is causing his current struggles.


There is also a far better chance he is a .700 OPS player with 10-15 homeruns. It's encouraging the way he hit homeruns, but Plouffe's 2012 is a brilliantly obvious example of SSS to be making future projections.

#7 notoriousgod71

notoriousgod71

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,006 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:30 AM

Penciling Plouffe and Florimon as the left side of our infield is a big mistake in my opinion. One can't hit right handed pitching and one can't hit at all.

#8 Twins Twerp

Twins Twerp

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 791 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:38 AM

Plouffe is plenty good enough to hold down the fort until the "Chosen One" can make his way up. This is still 3-4 years away so give Plouffe a shot, we aren't going to win any games in the next two seasons anyway

#9 Badsmerf

Badsmerf

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,655 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:27 PM

I just saying the Twins should probably get some kind of back-up for him going into next year. If he has a 600 OPS come June, he might not have what it takes. I love watching him this summer, but the past few months have been painful. The biggest part of it for me is he hasn't even been able to draw walks. Next year will obviously be a better tell, I just had to raise the question.

#10 SpantheMan

SpantheMan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 120 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:48 PM

Sign a veteran or former prospect to a minor league deal to push plouffe in ST but give plouffe 2 months to show he belongs. He's the best option we have right now that has any upside.

#11 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 661 posts

Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:50 PM

Hey, he is one of the PP boys with Parmalee :D

I think a winter of rest and getting healthy will bring back the beast-mode Plouffe. Two years in a row he has had major power, and one at the major league level.

Who are we to say how the thumb injury is affecting him? If he was sitting out nursing the wound people would be calling him a wuss.

#12 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,062 posts

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:05 PM

I would suggest that his last 5-6 years of baseball are probably more indicative than one ridiculous three week stretch.

Sounds good.

Plouffe over the last five seasons:

2008: 9 HR
2009: 10 HR
2010: 17 HR
2011: 23 HR
2012: 23 HR

I believe that's what they call "development." Your supposition that he's more likely to be a 10-15 HR guy isn't really supported by the above numbers. I think there's definitely room to question his ability to hit for average and get on base, but his power is legit, and to me his defense at third base is perfectly adequate.

#13 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 827 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:04 AM

Do not know if Plouffe is the answer to the third base problem, but he has more potential than the last few tried there. Give him next year to see where he is at, and then reevaluate. Twins will probably not be contenders next year anyway.

#14 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,723 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:26 AM

I would suggest that his last 5-6 years of baseball are probably more indicative than one ridiculous three week stretch.

Sounds good.

Plouffe over the last five seasons:

2008: 9 HR
2009: 10 HR
2010: 17 HR
2011: 23 HR
2012: 23 HR

I believe that's what they call "development." Your supposition that he's more likely to be a 10-15 HR guy isn't really supported by the above numbers. I think there's definitely room to question his ability to hit for average and get on base, but his power is legit, and to me his defense at third base is perfectly adequate.


I'm still not convinced he's a 20+ homer guy but I think he'll be a serviceable 3B with solid power upside... Not unlike a Joe Crede type (I think Plouffe's defense will continue to improve). He might turn into that 20+ guy but I wouldn't bank on it, as I think he still needs to prove that he can consistently lay off the breaking ball when it's good and pound it when it's bad.

#15 Twins Twerp

Twins Twerp

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 791 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

He hit 20 hr's in half a season. I think he can be a 25-30 type guy when healthy. His defense is above average (better than MVP Cabrera) and may swipe some bases. He is plenty solid enough to hold the fort down until Sano's name is called. Then he will be an even better bench player/trade bait.

#16 Twins Twerp

Twins Twerp

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 791 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:34 AM

AND he is not a huge raging D-bag like Valencia was.

#17 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:57 AM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='Nick Nelson'][quote name='TheLeviathan']I would suggest that his last 5-6 years of baseball are probably more indicative than one ridiculous three week stretch.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good.

Plouffe over the last five seasons:

2008: 9 HR
2009: 10 HR
2010: 17 HR
2011: 23 HR
2012: 23 HR

I believe that's what they call "development." Your supposition that he's more likely to be a 10-15 HR guy isn't really supported by the above numbers. I think there's definitely room to question his ability to hit for average and get on base, but his power is legit, and to me his defense at third base is perfectly adequate.[/QUOTE]

I'm still not convinced he's a 20+ homer guy but I think he'll be a serviceable 3B with solid power upside... Not unlike a Joe Crede type (I think Plouffe's defense will continue to improve). He might turn into that 20+ guy but I wouldn't bank on it, as I think he still needs to prove that he can consistently lay off the breaking ball when it's good and pound it when it's bad.[/QUOTE]

Technically Plouffe already is a 20+ homer guy.

#18 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,723 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:10 AM

[quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='Nick Nelson'][quote name='TheLeviathan']I would suggest that his last 5-6 years of baseball are probably more indicative than one ridiculous three week stretch.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good.

Plouffe over the last five seasons:

2008: 9 HR
2009: 10 HR
2010: 17 HR
2011: 23 HR
2012: 23 HR

I believe that's what they call "development." Your supposition that he's more likely to be a 10-15 HR guy isn't really supported by the above numbers. I think there's definitely room to question his ability to hit for average and get on base, but his power is legit, and to me his defense at third base is perfectly adequate.[/QUOTE]

I'm still not convinced he's a 20+ homer guy but I think he'll be a serviceable 3B with solid power upside... Not unlike a Joe Crede type (I think Plouffe's defense will continue to improve). He might turn into that 20+ guy but I wouldn't bank on it, as I think he still needs to prove that he can consistently lay off the breaking ball when it's good and pound it when it's bad.[/QUOTE]

Technically Plouffe already is a 20+ homer guy.[/QUOTE]

Obviously he's a 20 homer guy this season. My point is that I'm not convinced he's a perennial 20 homer guy.

#19 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,022 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

Real enough that I would not bring in some 3b to challenge him. They need ss and 2b and starting pitching. Bringing in a scrub just in case is how a team loses more games than it wins. You gotta roll the dice on a guy like plouffe. If sano is legit, it should not take four more years for him to be up.

#20 phalvorson

phalvorson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:13 AM

What happened to Sean Burroughs? I thought he was the veteran/backup 3B option. Did the Twins give up on him completely?

#21 joeboo_22

joeboo_22

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 173 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

Thumb injuries suck balls, especially for power hitters. I don't think Plouffe will ever be a .300ba 35HR guy. But he will be a .230-.260ba 25 HR 20 2B and play marginal defense where he makes plays he shouldn't and bones plays he should.

#22 nokomismod

nokomismod

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:36 PM

I would be happy if he was a healthy Crede type of player. The power numbers he showed at AAA last year also backup his power stats this year.
I caught part of Judd and Phun (AM1500) this morning talking about Mauer being ready to play 3B some or a lot next year in case Plouffe doesn't produce.

#23 jay

jay

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 906 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:41 PM

Talk today from Joe C at the Strib about Mauer taking some 3B next year. Any objections to a partial platoon where Mauer faces some righties from 3B? If Doumit takes the dish, that gets up to 7 or 8 lefties in the lineup against righties (depending on how the Span/Revere and MI pan out).

#24 Willihammer

Willihammer

    ice cream correspondent

  • Members
  • 2,931 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:13 PM

Ya the more the merrier. I don't think Mauer can possibly be as bad as Plouffe over there anyway.

#25 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,022 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:22 PM

Plouffe over the last five seasons:

2008: 9 HR
2009: 10 HR
2010: 17 HR
2011: 23 HR
2012: 23 HR

I believe that's what they call "development." Your supposition that he's more likely to be a 10-15 HR guy isn't really supported by the above numbers. I think there's definitely room to question his ability to hit for average and get on base, but his power is legit, and to me his defense at third base is perfectly adequate.


10-15 homeruns isn't supported by the above numbers but it is by a three week stretch? You're using the definition of a small sample size to buoy a season projection and then coupling that with trending minor league numbers? Yes, his play has gotten better but let's look at a few facts before we start projecting season-long numbers:

Half his homeruns were hit during a period in which he OPS'd 400 points higher than his season total. He was over .700 OPS only two out of six months of the season. His K:BB ratio is 3:1.

What you are citing is driven by a fluke. I want him to get a shot and to see if the injury was his problem or if he really is just a middling .650 OPS player who strikes out too much. Projecting based on small sample sized flukes should be beneath any serious argument.

#26 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,062 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:10 PM

Why do I care how the home runs were distributed across the course of the season? He still hit them all. He's always been a streaky hitter, that doesn't take anything away from the fact that he has gradually developed into a very strong power hitter over the course of several years. I'm not saying he's a lock to hit 20-plus bombs next year but there's plenty of reason to think he will. This was not a Mauer-esque fluke.

#27 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,022 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

Why do I care how the home runs were distributed across the course of the season? I'm not saying he's a lock to hit 20-plus bombs next year but there's plenty of reason to think he will.


Because three weeks of ridiculousness versus four months of pretty sub-par play screams fluke. And flukes are poor justifications for projections which is why it's perfectly valid to think projecting this year forward is probably too optimistic. I'm not ruling out that he can hit 20+ home runs, but a 600-650 OPS third baseman who doesn't hit righties well isn't going to see the field enough to see that. And if his season next year looks more like April, May, August, and September than June - that's precisely what will happen.

10-15 I think is a much more reasonable hope considering just how buoyed his final numbers were by a stretch which any reasonable person would agree is unlikely to be sustainable or relied on. Even streaky hitters rarely do what he did for that couple week stretch and his numbers would look mighty unimpressive without that stretch.

#28 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 9,385 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks

Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:59 PM

The big stretch was an obvious fluke in comparison to what he has done prior and in comparison to almost very other hot streak by any other player.

It makes no sense to discuss weather it was a fluke or not. Of course it was... He was way too hot.

However... Power numbers like that... at the same time suggests Power period... We could use some of that.

The guy chases and it hurts him. If he gets it under control. The power will still be there and we will all be smiling.

He starts in 2013 and I won't bet against him being decent and i think he will be starting in 2016 as well.

I also won't bet anything important that he's a lock.

5 bucks I'll do... Here's to Plouffe... Go get em.

#29 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,022 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:09 PM

However... Power numbers like that... at the same time suggests Power period... We could use some of that.


yeah, he's definitely got potential. With no one pushing him next year (and since I think we'll not be very good again anyway) - roll him out there and see if he can turn that fluke into a more consistent level of production. I just can't take much away from this season other than that he's fielding a position capably for the first time since he was promoted. Offensively this season was pretty bad more often than it was pretty good, but it's a step forward from what we had seen.

#30 Badsmerf

Badsmerf

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,655 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

I think we found Lev's man-crush! For realsies though, there should be a consensus that the Twins need to go into next season with their eyes open. For Lev to argue that his hot streak has tainted his numbers, you also should keep in mind he has played hurt which has hurt his numbers. How much? I don't think any of us know, but injuries like that do have a negative effect.
Do or do not. There is no try.