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Article: Dave St. Peter on Expectations, Attendance and Concessions

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#41 SenatorsGuy

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 01:18 PM

Its been my opinion for a long time that DSP is content marketing and appealing to casual baseball fans and non-baseball fans. I think he believes that serious baseball fans will always show up. 

The lack of a quality product on the field (at times even insulting), ridiculous concession prices and a pinball-like circus atmosphere between innings is more than enough to keep a lot of serious fans away. 

 

Going to games becomes a serious investment of time and money. And frankly, a lot of fans are tired about being more serious than the Twins and DSP.

 


#42 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:16 PM

 

 You'd think that there has to be a breaking point somewhere. I doubt that I'm the only one that won't buy anything, but I do know that I'm in the minority.

 

Right now the MLB demographic is old (45+), white, and male.They're the only segment of hte population with money to burning, which is why we havne't seen the breaking point.  

 

Yet.Because the people they need to replace those old white dudes are turning to other places because of the cost and a variety of other issues with baseball.At least that's my theory.

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#43 USAFChief

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:31 PM

 

Its been my opinion for a long time that DSP is content marketing and appealing to casual baseball fans and non-baseball fans. I think he believes that serious baseball fans will always show up. 

The lack of a quality product on the field (at times even insulting), ridiculous concession prices and a pinball-like circus atmosphere between innings is more than enough to keep a lot of serious fans away. 

 

Going to games becomes a serious investment of time and money. And frankly, a lot of fans are tired about being more serious than the Twins and DSP.

 

While I agree the cost of attending an MLB game is high, if you plan on eating there, it can be argued this hasn't had much effect on total attendance. Ticket prices, if you stay out of the high dollar areas, are often relative bargains compaired to other major sports. You can't get near an NFL game for the cost of a mid range MLB ticket.

 

Total MLB attendance is virtually unchanged over the last 20 years, since 1998.

 

https://www.forbes.c...s/#5aa824dc61bf

 

It is true there has been a significant drop since peaking in 2007.

 

I do concur DSP shouldn't speak publicly.

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#44 wsnydes

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 02:52 PM

 

Right now the MLB demographic is old (45+), white, and male.They're the only segment of hte population with money to burning, which is why we havne't seen the breaking point.  

 

Yet.Because the people they need to replace those old white dudes are turning to other places because of the cost and a variety of other issues with baseball.At least that's my theory.

I like that theory. I think you're definitely on to something there. I think the deterioration of the family atmosphere plays into that as well. Not only is it exceedingly expensive, but with the continued push to sell alcohol the behavior disintegrates too. I don't have kids, but it's not uncommon to find myself sitting there wondering whether or not I'd subject my kid to what goes on in the crowd sometimes.

 

Keeping families and the next generation of fans away is big problem, not just for baseball. 

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#45 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 03:03 PM

 

I like that theory. I think you're definitely on to something there. I think the deterioration of the family atmosphere plays into that as well. Not only is it exceedingly expensive, but with the continued push to sell alcohol the behavior disintegrates too. I don't have kids, but it's not uncommon to find myself sitting there wondering whether or not I'd subject my kid to what goes on in the crowd sometimes.

 

Keeping families and the next generation of fans away is big problem, not just for baseball. 

 

I wish there was a way to access the demographics of ticket-buyers over time.My family has gone from regular baseball game attendees to completely absent.I wonder if we're unique in that regard.

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#46 Knuckleball9

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 03:23 PM

Twins dichotomy Cheap AND Expensive. I'm surprised they let DSP speak at all, every time he does I renew my boycott of all things Pohlad...I still pull for the home team but won't open my wallet for these grifters.


#47 spycake

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 05:13 PM

It isn’t just the Twins. Since peaking in 2007, attendance across MLB is down over 4000 per game.


From 1989-2012, MLB averaged 1 new stadium opening every year.

Since 2012, the only new park has been Atlanta's (2017).

It's definitely complicated, but I feel the 2000-2010 period attendance was probably inflated by this factor.
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#48 wsnydes

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 05:14 PM

I wish there was a way to access the demographics of ticket-buyers over time. My family has gone from regular baseball game attendees to completely absent. I wonder if we're unique in that regard.

I doubt you are, but it would be very interesting to see the demographics. I go to fewer games as well. Most of that is that I simply don't have the time I used to, but it's also gotten more expensive and I'd rather spend that money elsewhere.
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#49 notoriousgod71

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 09:01 PM

I also have to assume that the dollar hotdogs are just awful on par with the KC dollar hotdogs that a dog wouldn't touch.

 

But that is purely an assumption as I don't typically eat at the ballpark.


#50 Doomtints

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 09:24 AM

Attendance may be down league-wide, sure. But come on. This team has been terrible for a long time, and Minnesotans have proven they will show up if the team is good and they won't if the team is bad.

 

Saying attendance is down everywhere is a cop-out and it's giving this organization credit it doesn't deserve.

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#51 nokomismod

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:31 PM

 

Pretty sure concession prices were ridiculous before any minimum wage laws. 

Yeah God forbid we should pay the people who are working at a sporting event a decent wage.

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#52 Parker Hageman

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:48 PM

The topic of food concessions was on a Planet Money podcast last November. The show focused on the Falcons and how they were doing going the other direction with it, but the show also touched upon why concession pricing in general is so outrageous.

 

Essentially, the Delaware North's of the world, who the Twins contract with to provide concessions, will set the initial cost really high across the board (which is why some products cost the same whether you are at Yankee Stadium or Target Field where the fan base income is very different). The Falcon's went a different direction.

 

FOUNTAIN: If you're like me, you probably thought the reason stadium food prices are so high is because the teams just want to wring every penny out of fans. But that's only half true. I head up to the front office to meet Rich McKay, the president of the Falcons. And he tells me the way stadium food usually works is teams hire a food company to do everything and then have almost no say after that.

Could you complain about - I don't know - warm beer?

 

RICH MCKAY: Yes, you can complain. That's all you do is complain. You don't - it's - nothing happens as a result of it.

 

SHAPIRO: The reason is big multinational companies compete for these contracts. And the bidding gets intense. The company that wins usually ponies up millions, sometimes tens of millions of dollars upfront and then splits the revenues from the sales with the team. And so, according to Greg Beadles, the COO of the Falcons, before a single Bud Light is even poured, those companies have dug themselves into a big hole.

 

GREG BEADLES: So for them to get their money back, there's only two sides of the balloon left to squeeze. And it's food quality; let's buy the cheapest food that we can. And let's charge as much as we can. And maybe, like, you know, a third is labor; let's have as few people as possible to make all of this happen.

 

FOUNTAIN: That's why it takes so long to get a hot dog. That's why the hot dog costs so much, and that's why it might be cold.

 

 

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#53 Doomtints

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

The Twins don't have to do things the way every other team does them. In fact, if they want to be cheap (and we know they do), they might want to try a new approach to concessions.

 

"Cheap" after all doesn't mean "make the consumer pay more so we can save."

Edited by Doomtints, 23 April 2019 - 12:59 PM.

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#54 Mike Sixel

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 01:50 PM

 

The topic of food concessions was on a Planet Money podcast last November. The show focused on the Falcons and how they were doing going the other direction with it, but the show also touched upon why concession pricing in general is so outrageous.

 

Essentially, the Delaware North's of the world, who the Twins contract with to provide concessions, will set the initial cost really high across the board (which is why some products cost the same whether you are at Yankee Stadium or Target Field where the fan base income is very different). The Falcon's went a different direction.

 

The Twins and other teams decide to do things this way. They could serve quality items, at better prices, if they wanted.......but they don't want to. It's really that simple. They'd rather farm it out to someone else, who cares not one bit about quality or cost....

Edited by Mike Sixel, 23 April 2019 - 01:50 PM.

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#55 Doomtints

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:58 PM

Attendance more than doubles when the Twins play well. Who woulda guessed?

 

OK, maybe everyone would have guessed.

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#56 Vanimal46

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:01 PM

Attendance more than doubles when the Twins play well. Who woulda guessed?

OK, maybe everyone would have guessed.


$5 tickets also help.
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#57 notoriousgod71

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 05:22 AM

 

$5 tickets also help.

 

 

I bet they'd sell out every game if all the tickets were that cheap.


#58 ashbury

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:34 AM

I bet they'd sell out every game if all the tickets were that cheap.

And they'd be capped at around $16M in ticket revenue instead of what I believe to be around $44M. That would make a noticeable dent in the payroll budget, among other things.

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#59 amjgt

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:35 AM

32,000 yesterday for a mid-week day game, before the end of the school year. I'd say attendance is picking up.

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#60 spycake

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 09:37 AM

 

32,000 yesterday for a mid-week day game, before the end of the school year. I'd say attendance is picking up.

I wonder if they had a lot of school groups in attendance.

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