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Article: Hello? Rochester... Please Send Help

fernando romero jake reed tyler duffey mike morin ryan eades
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#21 USAFChief

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:51 AM

As to Nick's tweet...he's right.

 

It's unpopular.

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#22 akmanak

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:51 AM

Not really sure why this comes as any surprise with the Twins. The last few years we have started out hot and nose dived from there. Same thing is bound to happen this uear because of pitching.

#23 chpettit19

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:55 AM

 

Last night, we needed a fireman. We didn't have one unfortunately...

 

Kimbrel would certainly have his bad moments, and even if he signed now, he woudln't be ready for a few weeks at best... Regardless, we needed him last night. 

 

We should have signed him. We still could... 

I think part of why Kimbrel isn't signed is because he isn't a fireman. I don't think he wants to do anything but pitch 3 out, 9th inning saves. And with his predilection for putting multiple runners on base in most of his outings I'm not sure you'd want him coming in with the bases loaded anyways.

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#24 chpettit19

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:05 AM

 

Taylor Rogers was there last night. He hasn't pitched since Sunday. He is clearly our best reliever and has been devastating against LHB. The Mets had a LHB up to bat with the bases loaded and 2 outs in a 1 run game. I'm not singling you out, but so many people aren't mentioning this.

 

It was a no-brainer to put in Taylor Rogers. Sure Kimbrel or someone would really help, but we can't act like we had no one to put in for that situation. Baldelli blew that one.

I don't know that it's a super obvious choice to bring in your best reliever for 1 out in the 5th in a 1 run game. You're still going to need to get 12 more outs. I don't think it's fair to say Rocco blew it. You have to have somebody else in the pen who can come in and get literally 1 guy out.

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#25 strumdatjaguar

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:11 AM

Tyler Duffy for now, and Romero soon,


#26 chpettit19

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:11 AM

I think it's the starting pitchers that are the real problem right now. Sure, last night looked bad with the pen unable to help Odorizzi out, but in the big picture it's him being awful so far and Gibson and Pineda, for differing reasons, not going more than 5. If the starting staff is getting through 6 more regularly we're looking at a whole lot less of the back end of the pen and a whole lot more of Hildy, Rogers, Parker, and May. Even Harper has been solid so far. Would Kimbrel be nice? Sure. But lets not act like we have 0 relievers. We have 3 guys who should be reasonably counted on to provide quality innings at the back end of games. I don't know that anyone here can name a single MLB team with a pen that can survive having multiple starters (who are expected to have a "real" start, not openers, etc. like Tampa uses) failing to get through even the 5th inning on a super regular basis. 

 

This is a starting rotation failure more than it is a bullpen failure. Unless you expect them to go out and sign 8 guys for 10+ mil a year so they never have a questionable bullpen arm.

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#27 spycake

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:20 AM

 

And with his predilection for putting multiple runners on base in most of his outings I'm not sure you'd want him coming in with the bases loaded anyways.

Kimbrel's career WHIP is 0.920. Last year it was 0.995.

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#28 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:23 AM

Hard to disagree with the need to get another BP arm and the concerns about Odorizzi not being able to go more than 4-5 innings. Problem is that the AAA BP is pretty bare other than maybe Morin and the pitching talent that is there mostly young starting pitching. Is there a match that solves both? You know what, Maybe there is. Couple of thoughts:

 

(1) Make Odorizzi the BP arm and bring up Kohl Stewart or Romero to start. Overpaid as a long man, but really seems to fit his talent level/profile. Really good as your 6th starter and could be a trade chip at the deadline for a team desperate for starting pitching.Stewart did well last year, admittedly against September lineups, same for Romero in the front of the year.I think both represent viable options now as a starter. Gonsalves and Thorpe are not ready to start in the bigs yet and I think Little is only an eventual no.6/7 starter/BP arm IMHO.

 

(2) Make Perez a BP guy all season. He doesn't look like a starter. Looks more like a 1 inning maybe 2 inning reliever, which is what Texas was going to do with him.He's in the Bullpen, leave him there. I say do this regardless of whether you do No. 1 except then you have to start 2 of Stewart, Romero and Littel. 

 

(3) Leave things as is and call up Mike Morin or Ryan Eades. Morin was a so-so reliever for the Angels until getting hurt and could add depth. Eades looked good in ST, decent in the Minors the last 2 years. Same depth kind of guy. I'd start with Morin. 

 

Whatever we do, send Vasquez back down. Can;t keep him here after that performance. He looked scared and simply not ready. The rest of the roster won't trust him and I think it would be bad for his development to go out and pitch badly a second time. Tell him you still have faith in him but that he needs more time and he'll be back up this year if he does will in AAA. Send him to Rochester and replace him with one of the guys mentioned above.Whatever we do, let's not keep him up and take the risk of watching him implode again.Bad for him, bad for the team's morale, and not a risk worth taking IMHO.  

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#29 wsnydes

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:27 AM

 

I don't know that it's a super obvious choice to bring in your best reliever for 1 out in the 5th in a 1 run game. You're still going to need to get 12 more outs. I don't think it's fair to say Rocco blew it. You have to have somebody else in the pen who can come in and get literally 1 guy out.

Heck, I would have settled for a guy that could actually hit the zone let alone get outs. At least make them earn the runs!

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#30 Coobelz

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:28 AM

 

I think it's the starting pitchers that are the real problem right now. Sure, last night looked bad with the pen unable to help Odorizzi out, but in the big picture it's him being awful so far and Gibson and Pineda, for differing reasons, not going more than 5. If the starting staff is getting through 6 more regularly we're looking at a whole lot less of the back end of the pen and a whole lot more of Hildy, Rogers, Parker, and May. Even Harper has been solid so far. Would Kimbrel be nice? Sure. But lets not act like we have 0 relievers. We have 3 guys who should be reasonably counted on to provide quality innings at the back end of games. I don't know that anyone here can name a single MLB team with a pen that can survive having multiple starters (who are expected to have a "real" start, not openers, etc. like Tampa uses) failing to get through even the 5th inning on a super regular basis. 

 

This is a starting rotation failure more than it is a bullpen failure. Unless you expect them to go out and sign 8 guys for 10+ mil a year so they never have a questionable bullpen arm.

I agree with the above statement that we are going to have major issues once we have to start utilizing a 5 man rotation. I am trying not to overreact to a 10 game sample size but this article makes me think we are in for a long season of poor pitching performances. Of those listed above, Romero is really the only player that gives me any hope. It makes the decision to utilize Romero as a RP all the more curious as he could have provided at least #4 SP numbers for us this year.   

 

As it stands, we have 3 guys we can trust. Gibby will better.  Pineda has been fun to watch, however I wonder if he will be on an innings limit or wear down as the season goes on.  Berrios looks like this could be his coming out party. Ordo looks like he should be the long man out of the BP, given his track record of success the first time through a lineup.  Perez looks awful so far. 

 

It is frustrating (as many have pointed out) that we made no effort to address our pitching this offseason. I am a big fan of the FA acquisitions to the lineup but we aren't going to playoffs by winning shoot outs every night.

 

 

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#31 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:42 AM

I wouldn't want to give up on Vasquez already, but even with all the strikeouts, the guy still was only throwing 90 MPH last year when he was up with the Twins. If that's what we are to expect from his velocity, I'm not going to expect great results from him at the MLB level.

 

With Perez going to the rotation I think Stewart or Romero should be added to the pen, they'll need multi inning guys.

 

Or they could skip AAA and get Cody Stashak from AA. One of my personal favorites and a guy who typically goes multiple innings. I don't think he's in AA because he needed remedial work, I'd guess it was because there were just too many options for Rochester and he didn't have seniority.

 

Also, Kimbrel.

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#32 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:43 AM

While I wish we would, I can at least understand why we won’t sign Kimbrel at the price he’s asking for. However, if we don’t sign Keuchel, who’s said he’s willing to take a 1 year deal, than we should send just Mejia down to AAA where he and Romero can get stretched out because I’m really starting to doubt the quality of our rotation. I never trusted Perez as a starter in the first place, since I believe he’s better suited for the pen, but Odorizzi and Gibson?? If we can’t rely on those two, beating Cleveland seems highly unlikely, especially when Lindor gets back.

If the FO wants to improve the pen without having to sign Kimbrel, than I recommend that we either sign Madson, make a trade for an established reliever (Givens, Bradley, Conley, etc), or even speed up the timeline for some of our system’s promising bullpen arms like Moran, Quezada, Smeltzer, Stashak, Colina, and maybe even Alcala.

However, the season’s young, so for the time being shuttling pitchers back and forth from AAA should be enough to tread water until Reed and Magill return, although we shouldn’t just expect that they’ll be effective, which is why we need to start making some adjustments if we are to still consider ourselves “contenders.”

Then again, maybe I’m just overreacting and Jake Reed is the answer...
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#33 SomeGuy

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:44 AM

Trevor May leads the league in several Statcast categories.He has the lowest Average Exit velocity against with 76.5MPH.He has the lowest hard hit% with 5.6% (only allowed one hit above 95MPH).His Barrels/Plate Appearance is 0.0%.

 

 

Between May, Rogers, Hildenberger, and Parker it is clear that we have no need for Kimbrel or any other closer candidate. Our bullpen is fine. 

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#34 Thrylos

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:00 AM

Hildenberger optioned, Vasquez outrighted/DFA'd; Eades and Romero up. 

In four days: Stewart's starts in Odorizzi's spot, Odorizzi to the pen, the least effective reliever with options down.

 

I don't care if it's little league or major leagues.If you cannot throw strikes you don't belong.

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#35 mikelink45

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:13 AM

Lots of strange decisions.I feel like the Romero experiment is like the Sano to the OF experiment.Let Romero start and get him up here.Odorizzi is now in his second year of proving he cannot go more than 4 innings.Rookie relievers need to get settled and DeJong and Vasquez got crushed instead.Then there is the Ehire pinch hit with Nelson Cruz on the bench.So much to confuse this old brain.

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#36 bighat

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:24 AM

 

From what we have seen of Perez, we might need a starter, too. Romero is my first choice for either role.

 

I agree, you just have to roll the dice with Romero. He's off to a decent start, just give him a chance. There's a high ceiling and he honestly can't be worse than what's happened already.


#37 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:25 AM

 

Trevor May leads the league in several Statcast categories.He has the lowest Average Exit velocity against with 76.5MPH.He has the lowest hard hit% with 5.6% (only allowed one hit above 95MPH).His Barrels/Plate Appearance is 0.0%.

 

 

Between May, Rogers, Hildenberger, and Parker it is clear that we have no need for Kimbrel or any other closer candidate. Our bullpen is fine. 

I agree on 3 of those 4, but disagree that our bullpen is fine. We need depth. The problem is that to win games we are going to have to over pitch Rogers, May and Parker. Hildenberger is a depth guy - he's frankly not that good, lets in most of the runners he inherits, but he's good enough to be the # 6 or 7 guy in a 7 man bullpen. Good enough to be in MLB, not good enough to be an important cog in a contending team's bullpen. We only have 3 of those guys. 

 

We need 4 or 5quality BP arms PLUS 2 or 3 depth guys. We have 3 quality arms in May, Rogers and Parker, and 1 depth guy in Hildenberger IMHO. I think Odorizzi could be a "quality" BP arm and Perez a depth/maybe quality guy. Maybe Harper or Morin finishes off the group now, with Eades, Romero and/or Littel coming in a month or two for anyone who isn't effective or the inevitable injuries. 

 

Sooo, I would move Odo to the BP and leave Perez there, and send Vasquez down. Now we need two starters. If we're going to sign a FA, sign Kuechel on a 1 or 2 year deal (he now says he'll take that) for one guy. Bring up Stewart as the #5 starter. If no Kuechel or while he's building up arm strength, add Romero or Littel to the starting rotation. I'd vote Romero but I don't know where he is in terms of innings, etc. 

 

To me, the better plan to make the less effective starters into relievers where they may be more effective and take our chances with young starters. That's where we have some talent, not in the bullpen. 

Edited by LA VIkes Fan, 11 April 2019 - 10:26 AM.


#38 bighat

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:25 AM

 

Hildenberger optioned, Vasquez outrighted/DFA'd; Eades and Romero up. 

In four days: Stewart's starts in Odorizzi's spot, Odorizzi to the pen, the least effective reliever with options down.

 

I don't care if it's little league or major leagues.If you cannot throw strikes you don't belong.

 

Hildy just walked one guy last night, otherwise has been solid. No need to blow everything up after 10 games. We're 6-4 man.

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#39 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:27 AM

This is what Odorizzi was last year. 5 innings and he's done. A number 5 starter. Gibson and Pineda have only the ability to go about 5 right now also, though due to health. Prepare for an overworked bullpen, injuries, and an exposed lack of depth.


The majority of starts in MLB last year were five and one third..... Pitching has changed.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 11 April 2019 - 10:27 AM.

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It's IL now, btw, not DL.....


#40 chpettit19

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:31 AM

 

Hildenberger optioned, Vasquez outrighted/DFA'd; Eades and Romero up. 

In four days: Stewart's starts in Odorizzi's spot, Odorizzi to the pen, the least effective reliever with options down.

 

I don't care if it's little league or major leagues.If you cannot throw strikes you don't belong.

Why would they option Hildenberger at this point in time? Or outright Vasquez? Why wouldn't you keep the guy who hasn't allowed a run yet and just send Vasquez back down while calling Romero up if that's who you'd prefer to have? 

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