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So....Time to make a call to Kimbrel?

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#81 nicksaviking

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:35 PM

I wanted Darvish, who is pitching better as this year goes on....you know, the expensive, actually good, starting pitcher. To my point......sign the actually good pitchers.

Of course it's ok to think Keuchel isn't any good any more.....but to suggest Stewart will be as good as him this year? Or next?

The Twins have 1 starting pitcher for next year they can trust. One. Where do people think 6-7 more are going to come from? Heck, three?

I wanted Darvish. He has/had good velocity, plus breaking pitches and a history of strong strikeout rates. I don’t want Keuchel, he has none of those, I don’t know why we can’t evaluate free agent on a deeper dive than desired contract.

#82 nicksaviking

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:37 PM

Somebody is going to get a 3 year deal for Kimbrel. I hope it is the Twins.


Me too. At this point I might suspect it will be after the June draft which may bring in more budders.

#83 spycake

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:44 PM

 

Me too. At this point I might suspect it will be after the June draft which may bring in more budders.

I don't know, that might be cutting it too fine. He's already missed the start of the season. If he doesn't sign until June, a team would really have to compress his ramping up period, and they'd carry a lot more uncertainty going into the trade deadline.


#84 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:54 PM

I wanted Darvish, who is pitching better as this year goes on....you know, the expensive, actually good, starting pitcher. To my point......sign the actually good pitchers.

Of course it's ok to think Keuchel isn't any good any more.....but to suggest Stewart will be as good as him this year? Or next?

The Twins have 1 starting pitcher for next year they can trust. One. Where do people think 6-7 more are going to come from? Heck, three?


If the Twins have evaluated him as not being very good moving forward, then it doesn't make sense to sign him just because they have to sign someone.
I don't know, today, where the rest of their 2020 rotation is going to come from. But I don't think the answer is just to desperately sign someone just because they are available.

I have no idea if Kuechel is cooked or if he can still be good. I'm just saying that it's a legitimate possibility that the FO has evaluated him, and determined that he's not much of an upgrade. If they are making independent evaluations and sticking with them, that makes me happy.
If they evaluate him as being good, and are just afraid of the money or draft pick, then sure, that's disappointing. But, for now I'm going to consider the possibility that they just don't like him as an upgrade.
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#85 Mike Sixel

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:24 PM

If the Twins have evaluated him as not being very good moving forward, then it doesn't make sense to sign him just because they have to sign someone.
I don't know, today, where the rest of their 2020 rotation is going to come from. But I don't think the answer is just to desperately sign someone just because they are available.

I have no idea if Kuechel is cooked or if he can still be good. I'm just saying that it's a legitimate possibility that the FO has evaluated him, and determined that he's not much of an upgrade. If they are making independent evaluations and sticking with them, that makes me happy.
If they evaluate him as being good, and are just afraid of the money or draft pick, then sure, that's disappointing. But, for now I'm going to consider the possibility that they just don't like him as an upgrade.


All fair, but I bet he's better than the guy they did sign.

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....


#86 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:17 PM

All fair, but I bet he's better than the guy they did sign.


Maybe, but they also have a budget.
We can debate whether they should have one, or if it should be bigger, but that's not productive to this conversation.
As long as the FO is given a budget, they have to factor salary into their decisions, as much as you may dislike it.
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#87 Jham

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:46 PM

What would you give up to get Pressley back? Never should have traded him. Find it unlikely the FO will pay way more for Kimbrel when they just traded Pressley. This way, it's not so obvious they screwed up.
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#88 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:55 PM

What would you give up to get Pressley back? Never should have traded him. Find it unlikely the FO will pay way more for Kimbrel when they just traded Pressley. This way, it's not so obvious they screwed up.


I don't follow your logic.
Wouldn't it be more obvious by NOT signing him, since it makes that spot even more glaring without a replacement?

Doesn't the fact that you figured it out, make it self evident that not signing him made it more obvious?

#89 Jham

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:23 PM

I don't follow your logic.
Wouldn't it be more obvious by NOT signing him, since it makes that spot even more glaring without a replacement?

Doesn't the fact that you figured it out, make it self evident that not signing him made it more obvious?

You of all posters should know how difficult it is for people to admit they're wrong.

My point is that what may be obvious to everyone else might not be obvious to the front office. Pride gets in the way.

As of now they can talk about the prospects in return, the uncertainty of resigning him etc. But signing Kimbrel for 2 or 3x Pressley's extension is basically the same as an admission they screwed up. Admissions are always more obvious than omissions.

Edited by Jham, 15 April 2019 - 10:24 PM.


#90 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:40 AM

You of all posters should know how difficult it is for people to admit they're wrong.

My point is that what may be obvious to everyone else might not be obvious to the front office. Pride gets in the way.

As of now they can talk about the prospects in return, the uncertainty of resigning him etc. But signing Kimbrel for 2 or 3x Pressley's extension is basically the same as an admission they screwed up. Admissions are always more obvious than omissions.


Well it's far too early to even know if they were wrong.
The trade clearly was never intended to help us in 2019. I'm willing to see what kind of fruit this trade bears before I declare that we lost the trade.
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#91 USAFChief

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:56 AM

Well it's far too early to even know if they were wrong.
The trade clearly was never intended to help us in 2019. I'm willing to see what kind of fruit this trade bears before I declare that we lost the trade.

we have a team that might contend in 2019, but is severely short of good pen options. They lost that trade no matter what happens with the lotto tickets they bought.
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#92 Jham

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:18 AM

Well it's far too early to even know if they were wrong.
The trade clearly was never intended to help us in 2019. I'm willing to see what kind of fruit this trade bears before I declare that we lost the trade.


I'm not saying right or wrong either. I'm saying why it would be tough for the FO to go sign an expensive rh fireball RP right now. Separately I'm saying this team may be a Pressley away from division title or a playoff series win or more. Though pill to swallow for those who wanted Pres extended instead of traded.

#93 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:24 AM

Unfortunately, this thread is going to get bumped as long as Kimbrel is an FA... and when he's signed if he's doing well, and every time the pen blows a lead....I'm really hoping it's page count doesn't get too high, but I'm not confident of that. 

 

Last night was a winnable game. Who knows if Kimbrel could have put out that fire, but it would have been nice to have him as an option. 


#94 USAFChief

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:54 AM

 

Unfortunately, this thread is going to get bumped as long as Kimbrel is an FA... and when he's signed if he's doing well, and every time the pen blows a lead....  

As it should.

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#95 Jham

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:53 AM

Think of where we'd be without Hilde's reemergence. Many wanted him outrighted off the 40.

On the other hand, gambling on Romero being a stud was/is not the stupidest move. He could still be that guy (unlikely imo, but I get the thought).

On the other Hand, imagine we had traded for Brad Hand (prolly woulda taken AK). Hand, Pressley, Hilde and Rogers... that looks pretty solid.

#96 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:47 PM

we have a team that might contend in 2019, but is severely short of good pen options. They lost that trade no matter what happens with the lotto tickets they bought.


I'd hope that they intend to try to contend in the theoretical future seasons that the prospects may contribute to as well.
Them competing now might seem more important to you than say 2023, but that doesn't make it so.
They absolutely can still win this trade. It's not 2019 or bust.
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#97 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:57 PM

 

I'd hope that they intend to try to contend in the theoretical future seasons that the prospects may contribute to as well.
Them competing now might seem more important to you than say 2023, but that doesn't make it so.
They absolutely can still win this trade. It's not 2019 or bust.

 

Of course, last year and this year count too......so, so far, they've lost. But, we'll see as time goes ....

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....


#98 h2oface

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:59 PM

Instead.... Duffey can be our savior.


#99 howieramone2

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:05 PM

 

How do you suggest they fix the pitching, if not Keuchel? Because I doubt there is a good, young, under control pitcher, available in trade

Keuchel is not the only pitcher left on Earth. If they go that route, they have money, players, and prospects to trade. 


#100 howieramone2

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:16 PM

 

So did the Twins screw up when they disagreed with the 29 GMs who felt that the cost and risk associated with Marwin Gonzalez could be better placed elsewhere? This isn't a good line of argument.

 

To the extent that teams have passed on Kimbrel to date, that was primarily when Kimbrel was still asking for $100 mil. And some of those teams moved on at that point to invest in other significant pitchers. 30 GMs haven't really passed on Kimbrel at 3/45. Same for Keuchel.

 

And of course, for BOS, NYY, CHC, LAD, and WAS, 3/45 would still cost more than 3/45 due to luxury tax penalties. (And NYM, HOU, PHI, and LAA would be right up against the luxury tax threshold after signing that contract, potentially putting them over at the trade deadline.)

 

Beyond that, there's also a lot of teams that Kimbrel and Keuchel don't want to sign with, regardless of their willingness to offer 3/45.

 

I know the Twins have some limitations in terms of revenue, but we also have a few competitive advantages right now.

His line of reasoning was very good. Can 30 GM"s all be wrong? Don't muddy the waters with Gonzalez. That's irrelevant to this argument.